2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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DJ Downforce
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Joined: 10 Jan 2025, 12:48

Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Seanspeed wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 14:07
DJ Downforce wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 14:01
Rikhart wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 13:46


Why yes, this must surely be the case. I mean, the driver that wins in anything (anywhere) he drives, just is not able to adapt to current year regulations. He has been adapting to more than a decade of changes in F1, it's just that this year is too much for him.

Yes. :lol:
That's the past, every driver faces regs eventually that they struggle with. Hamilton GE cars and so far Verstappen 2026 cars

Maybe he'll be more comfortable when they amend the battery rules to fix qualifying
I still so no solid reasoning for this 'Hamilton had issues with ground effect cars' claim, at least more than anybody else. Why was he still beating Russell in 2022 and 2023?

I think Verstappen has absolutely earned the benefit of the doubt on his adaptability here. Genuinely one of the most adaptable drivers we've ever seen, as most all the best drivers are.
He got worse as the GE era went on
22 no different from 21 really
23 on the pace but had some weekends where he was quite slow
24 bad
25 terrible

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DJ Downforce
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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venkyhere wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 15:39
DJ Downforce wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 13:18
Valeo wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 13:10


Where's the actual evidence it is an "upgrade"?
Verstappen is still trying to drive the car like it's a Venturi floor car. Hadjar has adapted his style for these cars more effectively at the moment. I think he could've probably pipped Gasly with the fairly substantial upgrades!
Hmm... I wonder what will happen to your conclusion in case Verstappen finishes the race ahead of Hadjar tomorrow. Don't you think you are drawing inferences from a very small sample set ?
Qualifying pace and race pace are very different!

I said Hadjar has been doing a very good job adapting his style in qualifying! As they haven't both finished a race together yet, it's hard to infer who might be adapting better on the long runs, let's hope tomorrow we find out! :)

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tinuva
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Some good trolling going on herr

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I would agree. We are not using our time well in here. This back and forth has no value.

It's just a race. The car is currently overweight and has some problems. Not everything needs a reaction. If they improve the car, then what? Like I said before, let's see what happens after the weight comes down in Miami. They also seem to have suspension problems which make the aero platform unstable. Verstappen said the rear is jumping. This will make the downforce unpredictable. It doesn't look great now, but the rate at which things can turn around could surprise you. There is a lot of time next month to fix things that don't work as expected.

For tomorrow, they are in a position like 2015. A Verstappen race is interesting no matter where he is in the field and no matter what car he is in.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 28 Mar 2026, 17:03, edited 3 times in total.
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Gillian
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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DJ Downforce wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 16:51
venkyhere wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 15:39
DJ Downforce wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 13:18


Verstappen is still trying to drive the car like it's a Venturi floor car. Hadjar has adapted his style for these cars more effectively at the moment. I think he could've probably pipped Gasly with the fairly substantial upgrades!
Hmm... I wonder what will happen to your conclusion in case Verstappen finishes the race ahead of Hadjar tomorrow. Don't you think you are drawing inferences from a very small sample set ?
Qualifying pace and race pace are very different!

I said Hadjar has been doing a very good job adapting his style in qualifying! As they haven't both finished a race together yet, it's hard to infer who might be adapting better on the long runs, let's hope tomorrow we find out! :)
Interesting point of view you have. Are you deliberately ignoring race pace difference? Even with the abysmal starts, Verstappen managed to overtake Hadjar pretty swiftly. Gap in race pace was very obvious as well, even though Verstappen 'has not adjusted his driving style'.

You're comparison to Hamilton in 22-25 is also interesting. Apart from both drivers being in a different part of their careers, I don't really see how you could make the point Russell being a lot faster than Hamilton? But of course, some say Verstappen was 'beaten' by Riciardo. I'd guess you are one of those people? Looking at points standing and race results only says so much.

Anyway not sure if you are serious or trolling, but you made your point. Thanks

avantman
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Delete
Last edited by avantman on 28 Mar 2026, 17:05, edited 1 time in total.

Gillian
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 17:00
I would agree. We are not using our time well in here so please stop making replies to that member. It has no value.

It's just a race. The car is currently overweight and has some problems. Not everything needs a reaction. If they improve the car, then what? Like I said before, let's see what happens after the weight comes down in Miami. They also seem to have suspension problems which make the aero platform unstable. Verstappen said the rear is jumping. This will make the downforce unpredictable. It doesn't look great now, but the rate at which things can turn around could surprise you.

For tomorrow, they are in a position like 2015. A Verstappen race is interesting no matter where he is in the field and no matter what car he is in.
He's correcting oversteer then waiting most part of the corner to accelerate due to understeer. Car does not look stable, but I honestly could not discern the 'jumping' he described. But yeah, not sure how visible it would/could be anyway. The car is just bad.

avantman
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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DJ Downforce wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 16:51
venkyhere wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 15:39
DJ Downforce wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 13:18


Verstappen is still trying to drive the car like it's a Venturi floor car. Hadjar has adapted his style for these cars more effectively at the moment. I think he could've probably pipped Gasly with the fairly substantial upgrades!
Hmm... I wonder what will happen to your conclusion in case Verstappen finishes the race ahead of Hadjar tomorrow. Don't you think you are drawing inferences from a very small sample set ?
Qualifying pace and race pace are very different!

I said Hadjar has been doing a very good job adapting his style in qualifying! As they haven't both finished a race together yet, it's hard to infer who might be adapting better on the long runs, let's hope tomorrow we find out! :)
It’s 2-1 in Max favor over one lap. Only Piastri is better against his teammate among top teams.
Hadjar was 2,5 tenths slower than Max and almost out in Q2 in China, got through by 2 thousands. This time it was Max turn. He was only 1,5 tenths slower than Isaak in Q2 and it was enough to get eliminated, he wasn’t as lucky. Russell is 3 tenths slower than a his weaker teammate (based on evidence of last year) again, but the likes of you don’t speak about him in the same manner you talk about Verstappen.

Valeo
Valeo
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I really miss Uncle Helmut at the austrian/german TV already.
Of course what he said didn't always made sense but at least we knew what was going on in terms of issues/updates.
Mekies is a closed book in that sense and not helpful. Would like to know what's going on at MK at the moment.

Emag
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Gillian wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 17:03
AR3-GP wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 17:00
I would agree. We are not using our time well in here so please stop making replies to that member. It has no value.

It's just a race. The car is currently overweight and has some problems. Not everything needs a reaction. If they improve the car, then what? Like I said before, let's see what happens after the weight comes down in Miami. They also seem to have suspension problems which make the aero platform unstable. Verstappen said the rear is jumping. This will make the downforce unpredictable. It doesn't look great now, but the rate at which things can turn around could surprise you.

For tomorrow, they are in a position like 2015. A Verstappen race is interesting no matter where he is in the field and no matter what car he is in.
He's correcting oversteer then waiting most part of the corner to accelerate due to understeer. Car does not look stable, but I honestly could not discern the 'jumping' he described. But yeah, not sure how visible it would/could be anyway. The car is just bad.
You won't be able to tell from the onboard. Or from the off board for that matter. Even when they set these cars up soft, they're still stiff as f*ck compared to pretty much everything else the average person has seen on the road.

So unless it's overly dramatic and he heads into the barrier, these sort of things are usually only discernible by the driver feeling.

If he said the rear is "jumping", that sound like the rear is just generally unsettled and it losses grip unpredictably. Perhaps overly sensitive to bumps. When the rear goes "floaty" you're just focused on keeping the car on the road, going fast becomes second priority. I think a textbook example of that is what happened to Max at the spoon curve in his last Q2 attempt, but you can see the car is a mess balance-wise all through the esses anyway. It's just that corners are shorter in that first sector so you can afford to throw it around a bit from one corner to the other, even though you're going to be slow as hell anyway.

The thing is, the car isn't looking good at all at the moment, so it's pointless to have driver talks. They're both trying to overcompensate for its weaknesses. Max is also a driver who prefers a pointy setup, which can really hurt you if the car is randomly getting loose on the rear.

It didn't look as bad in Australia, but I am wondering if that's somehow related to some teams not extracting the maximum out of their power units. It's a bit weird for Max to go from completely dominating the midfield in Australia, to barely matching a Haas for pace in China though.

Let's see tomorrow. If they can keep the midfield behind in race pace while having obvious problems, then that should be a silver lining at least with regards to the potential of the car. It would then be up to the team to do the best they can to settle this car down and bring performance to it throughout the long break until Miami.
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f1isgood
f1isgood
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Joined: 31 Oct 2022, 19:52
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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avantman wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 16:12
f1isgood wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 15:13
Seanspeed wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 14:08

Well deployment anomalies seem to be messing with a lot of people during qualifying so far. Because otherwise, the drivers seem to generally be closer with each other than usual.
Drivers are generally close for the most obvious reasons that the areas where drivers can make a difference is fundamentally gone in a rather significant fashion. Braking and cornering is largely limited now. Of course it helps teams have more closer drivers but that's another discussion.
What drivers are close? Watch Chinese grand prix again, Verstsppen was almost 20 seconds ahead of Hadjar before he got an issue, was lapping 5-8 tenths faster and battling the faster cars. all on true pace and merit, Isack had no car issues affecting his lace. If not for very convenient safety car the gap would’ve been 40-50+ seconds. What formula are all these
People that say hadjar is doing a better job(adapted better) watching?
Just like how one qualifying result doesn't change my opinion of Verstappen, one race result won't either.

People should stop falling for the obvious bait here being dropped by certain users.
The FIA folds on a royal flush.

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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If I was Red Bull I would use the race as a test session. It's important to understand what the issues are ahead of the long break. Change Verstappen's car again, start from the pitlane, and see how it responds. The race is 90 minutes. A normal free practice is 1 hour. They can make setup changes during the race. It's important to have a direction during the break. There cannot be doubt about the issues.
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euv2
euv2
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Think these balance problems that are limiting driver confidence can't be understated, it's not allowing the downforce the car is producing to be used.

We've seen it last year with the final floor update, it was mediocre every time they tried using it, but when they finally got it to work in Abu Dhabi, it gave Max the quickest car he's had all year.

Max seems to suggest that the team knows some of the limitations and they will be fixed in the coming weeks. That paired with the weight reduction, it should see them gain some lap time. Will they be competitive vs the Mercedes at any point this year, I'd say no. The PU gap will remain, but the chassis should be able to make up a lot of its deficit.

f1isgood
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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euv2 wrote:
28 Mar 2026, 17:55
Think these balance problems that are limiting driver confidence can't be understated, it's not allowing the downforce the car is producing to be used.

We've seen it last year with the final floor update, it was mediocre every time they tried using it, but when they finally got it to work in Abu Dhabi, it gave Max the quickest car he's had all year.

Max seems to suggest that the team knows some of the limitations and they will be fixed in the coming weeks. That paired with the weight reduction, it should see them gain some lap time. Will they be competitive vs the Mercedes at any point this year, I'd say no. The PU gap will remain, but the chassis should be able to make up a lot of its deficit.
Right now it's not even clear if there's a significant enough PU deficit.
The FIA folds on a royal flush.

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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The PU doesn't have anything to do with it. It's entirely a chassis issue.
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