Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[ian_s]

(braking against throttle to harvest because only when brake pedal is used can the K go into harvest)

This is wrong. there is nothing in the regulations that say it can only generate when braking.

The MGU-K (where the ‘K’ stands for kinetic) converts kinetic energy under braking into electricity (rather than it escaping as heat).

not always under braking, the K can convert kinetic to electrical energy at any time, so long as it doesnt exceed the allowed limits. I expect them at times to be harvesting while at full throttle out of slow corners, to reduce the total output to the gearbox of the PU as a whole by 240Kw, until they are not traction limited.

[Nonserviam85]

Yes, and more throttle due to increase in drag. Honda said it's partially what prompted them to come up with the extra harvest mode.

I suspect MGU-H is much more important than the MGU-K now.

As regards harvesting the MGU-H was always going to be more important than the MGU-K, because the H is not limited in harvesting.

The amount of energy you can send to the ES is limited, not the amount you can harvest.

[saviour stivala]

"waste-gates 2 pipe (exhaust tailpipes) quite small pipe diameters".

I am sure that the three exhaust tailpipes are max diameter needed. I believe that these diameters are mandated by the rules, also the pipe wall thickness.
The manufacturer supply the power unit with exhaust up to turbocharger exhaust turbine scroll housing (inlet) and up to waste-gates exhaust inlets. The three tailpipes are the responsibility of the customer. The length of these tailpipes and position they end at is dictated by the mandated turbocharger position on engine and the mandated ‘box’ the tailpipes must end in.

[hurril]

No the waste-gate/s are not positioned to vent exhaust turbine scroll. The waste-gates are positioned to bypass exhaust turbine scroll.
None of the four formula one engines uses a build-into-the-exhaust turbine scroll housing waste-gate/s. build- into-the-exhaust turbine scroll housing waste-gate can only relieve exhaust turbine scroll pressure to control compressor boost and not bypass the exhaust turbine scroll to eliminate back pressure so as the compressor can be operated in electric supercharging mode. A waste-gate positioned on top of the exhaust turbine housing doesn’t mean it is build into said housing.

What about the pictures in this very thread?

[saviour stivala]

Yes they do harvest under power, its called harvesting by burning fuel. to do so they use both feet, one on the accelerator pedal and one on the brake pedal.

[saviour stivala]

No the waste-gate/s are not positioned to vent exhaust turbine scroll. The waste-gates are positioned to bypass exhaust turbine scroll.
None of the four formula one engines uses a build-into-the-exhaust turbine scroll housing waste-gate/s. build- into-the-exhaust turbine scroll housing waste-gate can only relieve exhaust turbine scroll pressure to control compressor boost and not bypass the exhaust turbine scroll to eliminate back pressure so as the compressor can be operated in electric supercharging mode. A waste-gate positioned on top of the exhaust turbine housing doesn’t mean it is build into said housing.

What about the pictures in this very thread?

I already said that a waste-gate positioned on top of the exhaust turbine scroll housing doesn't mean it is build into it.

[seventhsin]

Yes they do harvest under power, its called harvesting by burning fuel. to do so they use both feet, one on the accelerator pedal and one on the brake pedal.

Where, exactly... Do you get your 'information' from?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[saviour stivala]

Yes they do harvest under power, its called harvesting by burning fuel. to do so they use both feet, one on the accelerator pedal and one on the brake pedal.

Where, exactly... Do you get your 'information' from?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

If you was following us you wouldn’t need ask me that question, just go back to page 174 last post.

[saviour stivala]

Re MGU-K harvesting. A genuine questions in an attempt to cut a long story short.
We all agree that as long as the ES can supply to the K and or as long as the H can harvest and supply to the K, the K is deploying according to throttle pedal demand (K deployment is mapped into throttle pedal demand (apart from race standing start up until the car reaches 100km/h). this means that K deployment is triggered by throttle pedal.
Apart from when braking, which means that the brake pedal is the triggering, what triggers the K into harvesting?.

[dren]

Yes they do harvest under power, its called harvesting by burning fuel. to do so they use both feet, one on the accelerator pedal and one on the brake pedal.

It'd be done through the PU mapping, not driver pedal input.

[saviour stivala]

Yes they do harvest under power, its called harvesting by burning fuel. to do so they use both feet, one on the accelerator pedal and one on the brake pedal.

It'd be done through the PU mapping, not driver pedal input.

I have no doubt that both deployment and harvesting are tailor mapped progaramed for each particular track. I explained my opinion how both are triggered on and genwinly asked a question in an affort to cut this long story short, but that post Hadn’t yet made it through. the problem is that if somebody asks a question and the answer doesnt make it through one will never have his answer, and so might think there was no answer tro his question.

[Dr. Acula]

No the waste-gate/s are not positioned to vent exhaust turbine scroll. The waste-gates are positioned to bypass exhaust turbine scroll.
None of the four formula one engines uses a build-into-the-exhaust turbine scroll housing waste-gate/s. build- into-the-exhaust turbine scroll housing waste-gate can only relieve exhaust turbine scroll pressure to control compressor boost and not bypass the exhaust turbine scroll to eliminate back pressure so as the compressor can be operated in electric supercharging mode. A waste-gate positioned on top of the exhaust turbine housing doesn’t mean it is build into said housing.

I think you talk about an internal wastegate and external wastegate. Although it is true, that an internal wastegate is integrated into the turbine housing, That doesn't mean an external wastegate can't vent the exhaust from the turbine scroll. The thing that defines internal vs external is actually where the mechanism to bypass the turbine is located. An internal wastegate has the "valve" basically in the turbine housing. In an external wastegate doesn't. So if i drill a hole into the exhaust turbine scroll and screw the "valve" on it, it's an external wastegate although it vents the exhaust gases from the turbine housing.
The wastegates used in F1 are fully electronically controlled anyway. So i'm not even sure it would be fully appropiate to call them internal or external, because they are different than most wastegates you can buy for automotive use anyway.

[Red Rock Mutley]

Hi, long time lurker but i rarely post, I mostly read.

It's the old problem of how to let everyone express their thoughts while at the same time keeping things on topic. I'm not a great fan of silencing people with whom I disagree. But there is the rating system; those with a good reputation can (and should) down vote posts to indicate the content is not to be trusted

[nzjrs]

Hi, long time lurker but i rarely post, I mostly read.

It's the old problem of how to let everyone express their thoughts while at the same time keeping things on topic. I'm not a great fan of silencing people with whom I disagree. But there is the rating system; those with a good reputation can (and should) down vote posts to indicate the content is not to be trusted

SS reputation has been below -8 and I think for a while even -12, I guess most people have him on their ignore lists. They even made a dedicated thread for him, but not even that could entice him. Sometimes nothing works.

[roon]

Can it simply be an acoustic phenomenon?

...the wastegate 2 pipe exhaust is limited to a particular (quite small imo) pipe diameter
does this small diameter ever give less than full relief to the pressure seen by the turbine when the wastgate is in operation ?

we might consider relief of mean exhaust pressure and .....
relief of exhaust 'pulse' activity (which anyway exists at ambient pressure as Wright showed in 14000 engines)

diameter-restricted tailpipes have been enhancing pulse activity in performance 2 stroke engines since 1953
the designer's choice not the rulemaker's

Is there a way to release pressure only, while preserving blowdown/kinetic energy for the turbine?