Why not have an F1 Indy 500 once a year?

[raymondu999]

are you turning Schizophrenic Frukost?

Don't think I am. Am I? Well Frukost tells me no so I'll take my word for it.

[Websta]

And the fact that oval racing is incredibly difficult and dangerous for the inexperienced.

yea specielly when its wet, Oh no they dont run cars if its wet . Wussies.....

where as running F1 cars, full speed at soaking spa is.... FUN and EASY i believe

F1 retiree nigel went to indy and won, thats the standard of oval racing.

You do not have pack racing in F1, it's not something you learn overnight (which you would need to for this proposed race). But "incredibly" difficult was an overstatement, I mispoke. Barrichello spent all season at it this year and had two top ten finishes - one tenth place and one 7th. And let's check in with our friend Takuma Sato and see what he has accomplished on the rings... Yeah, walk in the park

[Jersey Tom]

So much ignorance in this thread. With some irony, those who go on about oval racing being boring/monotonous/talentless are just as narrow-minded and naive as those oval racing fans who say the same about road courses. Admittedly I was just as much of a jerkoff when I thought of myself as a F1-only fan and had a poor attitude, refusing to even watch an oval race. Since then I've pulled my head out of my ass, opened my mind a bit, watched some other racing series and would encourage others to follow suit.

Consider the following:
1. Here's a road course race: Straight, turn, straight, turn, straight, turn, straight, turn [...] finish. Here's an oval race: Straight, turn, straight, turn, straight, turn, straight, turn [...] finish. Is it really fundamentally different whether the turn directions are R/L/R/L/R/L/R/L, or R/R/L/R/L/L/R/L, or L/L/L/L/L/L/L/L? No. Hell, Lime Rock Park is a road course where all the turns but one are right handers. The racing there is plenty good.

2. I watched a number of races this year from both F1, Sprint Cup, and Indycar. The Indy 500 was one of the better races of the lot! I was particularly impressed as there was a lot of passing - including passing for the lead - on downforce cars at high speed without a crutches of DRS or tires that turn to garbage after 5 laps or one overtaking attempt. There's something to be learned from that.

3. Big, banked corners can be a good thing - especially if the banking is variable and increases as you go up toward the outside wall. The reason being is that there is no one single "optimum" driver line which everyone follows in parade form. There are many! Can be equally fast running high or low. As tires go off and balance changes, the driver can adapt to that by taking a line which has more arc, or is more of a diamond, or any number of things. Many more opportunities for making passes. Requires a high level of technical proficiency from the driver in adapting line, and also in brake usage as any decel will occur while the car is already halfway through the corner. Takes a lot of car control.

Bottom line I think F1 could stand to see some more diversity in its tracks, including running on a partial oval. Difficult proposition. Full oval wouldn't be practical as it would likely require a chassis and tires built specifically for that event only. However, there are a number of circuits which would be interesting. Indianapolis is one of them, but there are a number of others which have an infield course as well. Daytona and Phoenix for sure. Kansas? Michigan? Atlanta?

It would certainly make things interesting, and more of a challenge for both the drivers and engineers. But I suppose if F1 would rather chase after gimmicks of garbage tires, DRS, KERS, and nose covers rather than diverse and challenging racing.. so be it.

[RobS]

Well Said, Pocono would be interesting as well, 3 different corners, all requiring braking and some a gear change or two.

[FW17]

I would prefer a indy race against a tilkedrome which has a hairpin leading to every straight and then a slow speed corner at the end. Effectively racing in F1 nowadays can be summed up to a drag race out of a hairpin.

The problem with indy 500 for me is it is 200 laps (way longer than 2 hours), too many caution periods which make the race a lottery (always), teams are difficult to follow with different livery and no mandatory number of cars per team.

[wesley123]

The problem with indy 500 for me is it is 200 laps (way longer than 2 hours), too many caution periods which make the race a lottery (always), teams are difficult to follow with different livery and no mandatory number of cars per team.

Thank god that that isnt happening in F1!

[strad]

Sometimes you guys are so dumb.

[Mafia]

And the fact that oval racing is incredibly difficult and dangerous for the inexperienced.

yea specielly when its wet, Oh no they dont run cars if its wet . Wussies.....

where as running F1 cars, full speed at soaking spa is.... FUN and EASY i believe

F1 retiree nigel went to indy and won, thats the standard of oval racing.

You do not have pack racing in F1, it's not something you learn overnight (which you would need to for this proposed race). But "incredibly" difficult was an overstatement, I mispoke. Barrichello spent all season at it this year and had two top ten finishes - one tenth place and one 7th. And let's check in with our friend Takuma Sato and see what he has accomplished on the rings... Yeah, walk in the park

All valid points., Yes barrichello and sato "WERE" really good driver (Note the emphasis, WERE, Not anymore... seems like American Oval racing is the graveyard of all F1 rejects.

[bhall]

So much ignorance in this thread. With some irony, those who go on about oval racing being boring/monotonous/talentless are just as narrow-minded and naive as those oval racing fans who say the same about road courses. Admittedly I was just as much of a jerkoff when I thought of myself as a F1-only fan and had a poor attitude, refusing to even watch an oval race. Since then I've pulled my head out of my ass, opened my mind a bit, watched some other racing series and would encourage others to follow suit.

Consider the following:
1. Here's a road course race: Straight, turn, straight, turn, straight, turn, straight, turn [...] finish. Here's an oval race: Straight, turn, straight, turn, straight, turn, straight, turn [...] finish. Is it really fundamentally different whether the turn directions are R/L/R/L/R/L/R/L, or R/R/L/R/L/L/R/L, or L/L/L/L/L/L/L/L? No. Hell, Lime Rock Park is a road course where all the turns but one are right handers. The racing there is plenty good.

[...]

It's possible to possess an appreciation or a respect for a form of racing and still be bored to tears by it. I understand that a lot of work goes into top-level oval racing, and that its participants are as skilled as any, but, for the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can watch a seemingly endless series of left turns and be turned on by it.

Then again, some people watch fishing.

And as long as we're drawing strained parallels here, is there really a difference between copious amounts of overtaking and very little overtaking? After all, monotony is just a boring preponderance of a given paradigm.

[...]

It would certainly make things interesting, and more of a challenge for both the drivers and engineers. But I suppose if F1 would rather chase after gimmicks of garbage tires, DRS, KERS, and nose covers rather than diverse and challenging racing.. so be it.

I dig that, though. I think it's because I'm a big fan of irony. One man's DRS is another man's competition caution, yanno?

[WhiteBlue]

Just go back to putting the 500 on the Formula One schedule.

You would have a number of problems:
1. The track will never get a formula 1 license as it is. Simply too unsave.
2. The cars would not be save enough either for the accidents that would be expected (like T-boning at high speed)
3. The teams would vote it down because they would have to design their cars for very different requirements.
4. There would not be enough slots to accommodate the F1 drivers and the American drivers.
So the idea is nice but there are huge obstacles that would make it unrealistic.

[Nando]

It's possible to possess an appreciation or a respect for a form of racing and still be bored to tears by it. I understand that a lot of work goes into top-level oval racing, and that its participants are as skilled as any, but, for the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can watch a seemingly endless series of left turns and be turned on by it.

This is kinda my stance. I don´t disrespect the work NASCAR drivers do, i fully understand the racing and that it´s not a walk in the park, not even for the supposed F1 super star like Kimi.

It´s just that i don´t find any pleasure in watching cars draft of each other for 499 laps with fabricated cautions and lucky dogs all in the name of creating a spectacle.
Part of me feels the only reason the circuits are oval is because of spectators.

Frankly i find myself watching NASCAR more when it´s on Infineon (yes i will forever call it Infineon) or Watkins as that´s where the real talent really rise to the occasion, but that´s just my thoughts.

P.S. the comparison with Lime Rock and an oval track is ridiculous. not to mention the faster classes runs the chicanes.

[Jersey Tom]

I dig that, though. I think it's because I'm a big fan of irony. One man's DRS is another man's competition caution, yanno?

Oh certainly. Not to say any one series has it perfect. Though I do think full course cautions (as opposed to local) are a good thing in general.

Just making the point that I do think it would be interesting to have a F1 race at a track that includes some banked corners and/or is more heavily biased to turning one direction more than another. The former expands possibilities for different overtaking lines and maneuvers, and the latter adds some challenge in car setup.

Now certainly, turning one direction entirely.. isn't everyone's cup of tea. Neither is road racing. But again, I was very much in the mindset that oval racing was boring up until a few years ago. Really, I was predisposed to that line of thinking and never gave it a chance and only ever saw a handful of events at best. I couldn't see how it would be fun to watch... until I actually started watching it. Some events can be a bit of a bore, sure... others really do have some pretty good position battles and racing. As a statistic, the 2012 Sprint Cup champion totaled 2201 quality passes (!!) over the season, or an average of 61 per race. A "quality pass" being a pass of a top-15 car (effectively the top third), racing on track. That's a bit more action than "everyone just drafting around in a pack" or getting wave-arounds on cautions.

In general, F1 could go for some more diversity in its tracks. I like having a variety of places with different, unique challenges. Monaco is special like that. Speaking to some non-F1 US circuits, a place like Laguna Seca is cool because of the cork screw. Similar set of corners at Mid Ohio as well. Sebring is unique in how topographically flat it is but how bumpy at the same time. I think every series should have tracks of significantly different flavor.

[strad]

It´s just that i don´t find any pleasure in watching cars draft of each other for 499 laps with fabricated cautions and lucky dogs all in the name of creating a spectacle.
Part of me feels the only reason the circuits are oval is because of spectators.

Nando, You say this when F1 has DRS and tires designed to wear out?
Come now you must laugh at yourself over that one. Now if you said that most of the races are too long and on TV, hypnotizing to the point of putting you to sleep, you might get more agreement from this camp.
As for the part about the circuits you are 100% correct...The first NASCAR tracks were carved out of farmers fields and Indy cars and Midgets and Boardtracks and all the rest grew out of what was mostly Fairground horse tracks and all were for the spectators and in the good ol' boys case, so all could clearly see who was the better driver or who had the better car.

[JayeOFarrell]

Might as well have it at Rockingham

[Nando]

Nando, You say this when F1 has DRS and tires designed to wear out?
Come now you must laugh at yourself over that one. Now if you said that most of the races are too long and on TV, hypnotizing to the point of putting you to sleep, you might get more agreement from this camp.
As for the part about the circuits you are 100% correct...The first NASCAR tracks were carved out of farmers fields and Indy cars and Midgets and Boardtracks and all the rest grew out of what was mostly Fairground horse tracks and all were for the spectators and in the good ol' boys case, so all could clearly see who was the better driver or who had the better car.

Ok i´ll take that back even though i would not fully compare the two as i think it´s still quite different being last in F1 then NASCAR, assuming you are not sitting in the quickest machine.

Btw, doesn´t Moonshining have something to do with the beginning of NASCAR?
Old bootleggers out running the cops then going racing with them on the weekends?
Or maybe it had to do with the prohibition period,