It was raced a few times in 1987 and reportedly Nelson Piquet won in Monza with it that year.xpensive wrote:Williams were indeed dabbling with what they called "re-active" suspension in parallel to Lotus already in the 80s, but I don't think it was raced until 1992, when Mansell so famously claimed they were not sure about its benefits, only to win the first 5 races.
Well, yes. But to say that it is only his result is IMO a bit stretching. Especially in the engine development. Like without Newey a fresh idea of making the most powerful engine never crossed the mind of Bernard Dudot.xpensive wrote:I agree with mun however, I believe that development only picked up speed after Newey's arrival when he had xplained what it was god for, a Leyton House for uneven tracks.
When people don't read.....annomanderrake wrote:Please don't get abusive.p
Adrian Newey's priorities and demands put pressure on every single aspect of the car - mechanical, engine, drivetrain etc. He doesn't much care about drag as long as he's adding downforce and cornering speed that outweighs the downsides. He sees drag as a horsepower problem and demands more from the engine manufacturer. They either sink or swim. Why do you think Red Bull were trying to get Mercedes as a supplier not long ago?Are you honestly crediting the powerful Renault engine of the 1990s to Newey?
Cars with active suspension simply didn't work prior to when Williams took it on in the 91/92 period. It was promising, but little more. The suspension wasn't even very 'active'. It was terribly inconsistent and was impossible to create an aerodynamic direction that could make use of it. That only happened once Adrian Newey realised what the benefits were and the computer technology in particular was there to make it work and he knew what effect he wanted. That technology was only available into the 1990s and the system in use by Williams during that period was completely different to what had gone before.flmkane wrote:Seriously? The Williams FW11 was the first Williams car with active suspension, which was raced in 1986. Back then Newey was in CART, not F1. By 1991 this system had been in development for many years, regularly tested and sometimes raced.
No. READ what I wrote above. I am not going to repeat it for the benefit of people who can't read and don't think.And are you seriously stating that Newey engineered the Renault engines, which had been in constant development since 1989?
It's pressure and the clarity of knowing what needs to be done that gets results. Chapman was exactly the same. He had some great ideas and those ideas sucked everyone else along into producing what they probably thought was impossible.timbo wrote:Like without Newey a fresh idea of making the most powerful engine never crossed the mind of Bernard Dudot.
Call me a idiot, but I think you're being absurd, The Active Suspension would have being in development long time before it was utilised, you give Adrian way to much credit, I assure you others at WIlliams would have understood the benefits thats why they worked at developing it, they was developing it before Adrian joined.munudeges wrote:flmkane wrote:That only happened once Adrian Newey realised what the benefits were and the computer technology in particular was there to make it work and he knew what effect he wanted.
Now all this is just factually wrong.munudeges wrote:The system that Williams started to produce in 91 and perfected in 92 and 93 was completely different to anything that had gone before, so no, it wasn't in development for years. In the 80s the suspensions that were tested weren't very active, they were horribly inconsistent and could not react quickly enough to a change in track surface. You certainly couldn't base a car's aerodynamics around them. Active wasn't even the right word.
Towards the back-end of the 80s active, or semi-active, systems were all but abandoned as being far too complex and where people saw promise but weren't sure at all of what the real benefits would be. It was only when Newey came along at Williams that someone was sure of what the benefits were aerodynamically and the expended effort (mostly software development, and software based on aerodynamic decisions) clearly became worth it. Without someone making that push nothing much happens, as it really didn't before that, and why other teams were so far behind.
It got banned not because of cost but because other teams were freaking out about the complexity of developing it. They just didn't want to face the difficulties. It was the same with exhaust blowing. Teams freaked out because they didn't want to face the hideous complexities involved.
The best of the best are always able to drag others along in their wake, usually kicking and screaming, even if they are not directly involved. Adrian Newey has certainly done that.
I assure you, others at Williams and Lotus were well aware of the benefit, they didn't need Newey for that.munudeges wrote:It was only when Newey came along at Williams that someone was sure of what the benefits were aerodynamically and the expended effort (mostly software development, and software based on aerodynamic decisions) clearly became worth it.
One of MrM's favorites that, almost as useful as "bringing the sport into disrepute" to ban or punish anything he didn't like.annomanderrake wrote: ...
Max actually banned it on safety grounds.
I assure you that it would have moved on far, far earlier had they known just what they should be doing with it. Besides, the software required needed logic that came from an aerodynamacist who knew exactly what should be happening under certain conditions (raising the car on straights etc.). Guess who that was?annomanderrake wrote:I assure you, others at Williams and Lotus were well aware of the benefit, they didn't need Newey for that.
If you believe that you'll believe......... Pretty ironic that taking away active suspension for 1994 made the cars more unstable and less safe, eh?Max actually banned it on safety grounds.
They new and the active suspension was put forward exactly by aerodynamicists' requests.munudeges wrote:I assure you that it would have moved on far, far earlier had they known just what they should be doing with it. Besides, the software required needed logic that came from an aerodynamacist who knew exactly what should be happening under certain conditions (raising the car on straights etc.). Guess who that was?
