Newey, Chapman, Postlethwaite, Barnard, Byrne, Murray, et al

[marcush.]

sorry for drifting off here :
Newey is THEMAN who invented windtunnel issues in reality.
His designs at March -Leyton House were famous for not correlating windtunnel and real world.Only the ultra smooth tarmac in Magny cours and Paulricard brought his CG871/881/891/
901designs to life ....a car impossible to qualify only weeks before suddenly was the one to beat -only missing a double win because of mechanical issues -and falling back into obscurity in the following races....
His passion for extreme aerobiased designs did not really work on real tracks.

[SectorOne]

His passion for extreme aerobiased designs did not really work on real tracks.

Oh but it does, his relentless view on aero and compromise the rest has made him the most succesful car designer ever in Formula One.

Regarding Leyton House, he said in an interview that they just needed more time and it could win championships.

His idea is maximize aero, solve the problems that show up and rake in the benefits after.

[wesley123]

I am quite sure Colin Chapman was more succesful.

But seriously, people should stop praising him like he is some sort of God, he isnt anything better than any other of the big aero designers and more often his designs were not good enough or failures than that they won championships.

[SectorOne]

I am quite sure Colin Chapman was more succesful.

But seriously, people should stop praising him like he is some sort of God, he isnt anything better than any other of the big aero designers and more often his designs were not good enough or failures than that they won championships.

Actually he´s won 7 WCC´s

Newey has won 9 (a tenth on the way it seems). Byrne has won 7 as Chapman.

[marcush.]

His passion for extreme aerobiased designs did not really work on real tracks.

Oh but it does, his relentless view on aero and compromise the rest has made him the most succesful car designer ever in Formula One.

Regarding Leyton House, he said in an interview that they just needed more time and it could win championships.

His idea is maximize aero, solve the problems that show up and rake in the benefits after.

don´t get me wrong i´m a huge fan since the leyton house days ,in fact before even that ...but boy took it long until his work did not just look the part but did also perform...

link to Paul morgans son whose company restored my alltime favorite -CG901-:

http://www.thevrl.com/profile/PatrickMorgan

[MadMatt]

But seriously, people should stop praising him like he is some sort of God, he isnt anything better than any other of the big aero designers and more often his designs were not good enough or failures than that they won championships.

THIS. I don't know what happens with medias nowadays, but they like to put faces on anything. It is like LeMans one year where for most of the race we saw Dr. Ulrich's face and the Peugeot director's face rather than the race. Same in F1 when they show Horner and Neway. He is good of course, but I think there are equal aerodynamicists around but with lesser resources. Neway worked a lot with winning teams (Williams at their best, McLaren when they became bests not only because of aero, but because of the tyres and their fantastic Illmor engine, and now Red Bull with their colossal budget). The man is great, but yea he's not god (and I'm sure he doesn't think so either).

[marcush.]

you can already see the later williams lines on this car ....it took him a while to nail the design and it was Patrick Head who was able to somewhat harness Newey and make him what he is todays.

[flmkane]

I am quite sure Colin Chapman was more succesful.

But seriously, people should stop praising him like he is some sort of God, he isnt anything better than any other of the big aero designers and more often his designs were not good enough or failures than that they won championships.

Actually he´s won 7 WCC´s

Newey has won 9 (a tenth on the way it seems). Byrne has won 7 as Chapman.

Errr....

Chapman was one of the people behind the rise of rear engined F1 cars.

Chapman was the one who made the first monocoque F1 car

Designed the first car to adopt a lying down driving position.

Was the one who designed the first car to use the Engine as a stressed member of the chassis.

Invented sidepods for F1 cars

One of the first engineers to mount wings on their cars

Also the first to use a sculpted under tray to create downforce using Ground Effect.

Did extensive work on vehicle dynamics and suspension design, which is still relevant textbook material to this day.

Pioneered active suspension towards the end of his life.

Mere championships are irrelevant when discussing the greatness of Colin Chapman. His development work transcends mere F1 racing and permeates into modern road car engineering. He is one the greatest automotive engineers ever and certainly the greatest F1 designer in history, due the sheer breadth of his innovations, which stood the test of time.

[SectorOne]

Errr....

Chapman was one of the people behind the rise of rear engined F1 cars.

Chapman was the one who made the first monocoque F1 car

Designed the first car to adopt a lying down driving position.

Was the one who designed the first car to use the Engine as a stressed member of the chassis.

Invented sidepods for F1 cars

One of the first engineers to mount wings on their cars

Also the first to use a sculpted under tray to create downforce using Ground Effect.

Did extensive work on vehicle dynamics and suspension design, which is still relevant textbook material to this day.

Pioneered active suspension towards the end of his life.

Mere championships are irrelevant when discussing the greatness of Colin Chapman. His development work transcends mere F1 racing and permeates into modern road car engineering. He is one the greatest automotive engineers ever and certainly the greatest F1 designer in history, due the sheer breadth of his innovations, which stood the test of time.

"Errr..." Chapman lived in a time where innovation was normal. People had not even discovered downforce.
There´s just not possible for any similar innovations anymore. The biggest thing you can point to is Williams electronic suspension.

Basically, it was far easier to innovate in those days then it is today.

Also, i never said greatest. I said most successful. BIG difference.

[Richard]

Comments about “murderers” and “blood on his hands” have been deleted.

Focus on the cars - what was innovative, what worked and what didn’t work.

[GitanesBlondes]

Since this has been renamed to include multiple designers, how about Gerard Ducarouge? He did a pretty impressive job for what were midfield teams. I often wonder what might've been regarding active suspension had he been in a place like McLaren in the late 80s.

Regarding marcush's original post, he definitely does bring up a good point about Newey and wind tunnels. Patrick Head certainly did wonders with helping to sort out his aero designs. It was a pity that the Leyton House car was only capable on smooth tarmac. But it brings up the question, is the tarmac on the currently used tracks smoother than anything we had in the past?

[donskar]

I am quite sure Colin Chapman was more succesful.

But seriously, people should stop praising him like he is some sort of God, he isnt anything better than any other of the big aero designers and more often his designs were not good enough or failures than that they won championships.

Actually he´s won 7 WCC´s

Newey has won 9 (a tenth on the way it seems). Byrne has won 7 as Chapman.

Errr....

Chapman was one of the people behind the rise of rear engined F1 cars.

Chapman was the one who made the first monocoque F1 car

Designed the first car to adopt a lying down driving position.

Was the one who designed the first car to use the Engine as a stressed member of the chassis.

Invented sidepods for F1 cars

One of the first engineers to mount wings on their cars

Also the first to use a sculpted under tray to create downforce using Ground Effect.

Did extensive work on vehicle dynamics and suspension design, which is still relevant textbook material to this day.

Pioneered active suspension towards the end of his life.

Mere championships are irrelevant when discussing the greatness of Colin Chapman. His development work transcends mere F1 racing and permeates into modern road car engineering. He is one the greatest automotive engineers ever and certainly the greatest F1 designer in history, due the sheer breadth of his innovations, which stood the test of time.

Agree completely. Chapman was one of the unquestioned greats, whose work led to F1 cars as we now know them. Another name only old-timers will remember and appreciate: Mauro Forgheiri (SP?) capable of designing engines, transmissions, chassis, and aero -- all under terrible conditions (technical chaos; political back-stabbing).

[FoxHound]

Law of diminished returns though.

Chapman had a larger field to innovate. The scope gets smaller as you move along the development line.
What Newey has achieved may not be as impressive in terms of developments, but given the more restrictive scope and formula he works in, it's all the more impressive.

What he has done with the confines he works in, is astonishing. But it's like comparing Pele to Messi, or Senna to Fangio etc etc Both deserve ultimate kudos to their work and legacy in F1.

[No Lotus]

I am quite sure Colin Chapman was more succesful.

But seriously, people should stop praising him like he is some sort of God, he isnt anything better than any other of the big aero designers and more often his designs were not good enough or failures than that they won championships.

Actually he´s won 7 WCC´s

Newey has won 9 (a tenth on the way it seems). Byrne has won 7 as Chapman.

Errr....

Chapman was one of the people behind the rise of rear engined F1 cars.

Chapman was the one who made the first monocoque F1 car

Designed the first car to adopt a lying down driving position.

Was the one who designed the first car to use the Engine as a stressed member of the chassis.

Invented sidepods for F1 cars

One of the first engineers to mount wings on their cars

Also the first to use a sculpted under tray to create downforce using Ground Effect.

Did extensive work on vehicle dynamics and suspension design, which is still relevant textbook material to this day.

Pioneered active suspension towards the end of his life.

Mere championships are irrelevant when discussing the greatness of Colin Chapman. His development work transcends mere F1 racing and permeates into modern road car engineering. He is one the greatest automotive engineers ever and certainly the greatest F1 designer in history, due the sheer breadth of his innovations, which stood the test of time.

You could also mention his last great idea which is to separate the underbody aero from the sprung mass of the car. He called it a "twin chassis" and it's something that's largely been forgotten. I am absolutely convinced, however, that it is the future for supercars (and then vehicles more generally) because of the performance gains achievable. Chapman didn't live to see the idea fully developed and really just scratched the surface as to what is possible using the concept. Now I'm trying to get the manufacturers interested.

[munudeges]

it took him a while to nail the design and it was Patrick Head who was able to somewhat harness Newey and make him what he is todays.

Adrian Newey was way out in front of Patrick Head. In reality Newey was stifled by him and it's one of the reasons why the Williams team finds itself in the position it is in right now.