Bush warned before Katrina!!!

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Ted68
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Joined: 20 Mar 2006, 05:19
Location: Osceola, PA, USA

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Hey, Tomba/Principessa: If your going to edit two-thirds of my post out, please leave enough for me not to sound like a friggin' lunatic.

Ted

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
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[Uneasy shuffle,]

I took it to mean the aspect where the stereotypical Americans generaly meet as strangers, start talking, and the next thing you know, your the best of friends. Very much a stereotype and I doubt it is true for many Americans, but that is unusual for us in Britain and possibly the rest of Europe.

Britains are pretty unsociable twats who try to avoid talking to just anyone, around here at least. I know a few people who could walk down the street and make some new freinds but very few.

It is a very unfair comment and if I had thought it would be taken offensively by anyone I would not have said it, but as I stated it was intended mainly to show that Americans can take the p**s out of themselves except you have kind of contradicted it a bit there.

So I suppose this is an official apology to the people of America.
'Weird social experiment' was certainly not the right term to use to portray my point and I hope this will not bring any trouble to this website.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

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jgredline wrote:Dave and Tom
Explain what is a social experiment for all of us AMERICANS on this forum?
I would like to know.
Different societies and cultures develop different attitudes and ways of thought. Not that any are "right" or "wrong", they just differ. I consider myself fortunate (not arrogant) that I have been exposed to, and lived in many different nations and cultures. Here where I live, I swim in a sea of different, sometimes contradictory cultures. I live in a neighbourhood considered to be "Jewish", but my pharmicist is from Iran. One of my co-workers is from Barbados, and another directly from China. That is just a small example, I have friends from almost every culture you can think of. I even lived in a short while deep in NASCAR country, in Mooresville, North Carolina. So I'm not an expert, but I have enjoyed many different and wonderful cultures in many different places and times.
But no nation is perfect, all cultures have good points and weaknesses. We all as individuals like to think that our home culture is the "best', and hard to improve on. Each nation and culture also has good people and bad people, we all share our living space with the occasional jerk. And for the record, I have some friends in the USA that are truly some of the nicest people you can ever meet. Solid gold people.
But the general US culture is an unusual and unique mix of historical forces, geography, and the fact that it is truly blessed by incredible natural resources. The two great oceans have created a distance from most of the rest of the world, and the general US citizen is happily unaware of what goes on outside of their borders. Some consider it arrogance, or fear, personally I consider it just introspection on a massive scale. Their self-celebration, their values concerning success or failure, their general polarized thinking on issues has created a society that functions generally well, but falls to pieces when exposed to the rest of the world. And sadly, the willingless to do whatever it takes to ensure their national well being without truly thinking out the real long term consequences has placed that nation and wonderful people in a situation where at present many different peoples cultures, and religions fear and dislike the USA.

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Tom
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I wasn't bold enough to say that much but I agree with DaveKillens, (although the only culture around here is yob culture).

Again however it is a stereotype. It is not fair but everyone has one.
Thats life.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

Sodder
Sodder
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006, 20:30
Location: Nashville, Tn. USA

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Did my post get axed or did I write a long post and forget to hit submit (Seriously, it's happened before)?
All I know is I don't know much....

http://batracer.com/-1FrontPage.htm?6l

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jgredline
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Joined: 16 Jan 2006, 07:07
Location: Los Angeles

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Sodder wrote:Did my post get axed or did I write a long post and forget to hit submit (Seriously, it's happened before)?
your post probably got deleted because we are under attack
To finish first, first you must finish.

Sodder
Sodder
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006, 20:30
Location: Nashville, Tn. USA

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My post was sincere and nice. It spoke of love and earthly unity and all that other hippie jazz. Along with making jokes about us Americans loving to talk, and being too nice. I even went as far as to agree with some of the post here. I guess since I disagreed with some of the others I made a boo boo???

There was nothing tactless, or obscene about it.

Who knows???
All I know is I don't know much....

http://batracer.com/-1FrontPage.htm?6l

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Ted68
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Joined: 20 Mar 2006, 05:19
Location: Osceola, PA, USA

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Hey Tom, if I had finished the whole bottle of tequila, would you have put me up for Emporor of the Universe? Obviously, anyone can be president anymore.

As for the guy who said he agreed with me, please tell me what I meant.

Damn, that was embarassing to read. Glad I could amuse you!

Ted

Sodder
Sodder
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006, 20:30
Location: Nashville, Tn. USA

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I dont know about the under attack statement, but I just simply forgot to hit submit after writing my post. You would be suprised how often that happens to me. :lol:
All I know is I don't know much....

http://batracer.com/-1FrontPage.htm?6l

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Scuderia_Russ
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004, 22:24
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

9/11

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Wow. I'm not usually one for this conspiracy theory stuff but I've just watched this video. Don't be put off by its lengh!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3762628848

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Fresh news...

FEMA funds spent on divorce, sex change
By LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press Writer 53 minutes ago

Houston divorce lawyer Mark Lipkin says he can't recall anyone paying for his services with a FEMA debit card, but congressional investigators say one of his clients did just that.

The $1,000 payment was just one example cited in an audit that concluded that up to $1.4 billion — perhaps as much as 16 percent of the billions of dollars in assistance expended after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita — was spent for bogus reasons.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency also was hoodwinked to pay for season football tickets, a tropical vacation and a sex change operation, the audit found. Prison inmates, a supposed victim who used a New Orleans cemetery for a home address and a person who spent 70 days at a Hawaiian hotel all were able to get taxpayer help, according to evidence that gives a new black eye to the nation's disaster relief agency.

"I do Katrina victims all the time," Lipkin, the divorce attorney, told The Associated Press. "I didn't know anybody did that with me. I don't think it's right, obviously."

Government Accountability Office officials were testifying before a House committee Wednesday on their findings.

Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, chairman of the subcommittee overseeing an investigation of post-hurricane aid, called the bogus spending "an assault on the American taxpayer."

"Prosecutors from the federal level down should be looking at prosecuting these crimes and putting the criminals who committed them in jail for a long time," he said.

To dramatize the problem, investigators provided lawmakers with a copy of a $2,358 U.S. Treasury check for rental assistance that an undercover agent received using a bogus address. The money was paid even after FEMA learned from its inspector that the undercover applicant did not live at the address.

FEMA spokesman Aaron Walker said Tuesday that the agency, already criticized for a poor response to Katrina, makes its highest priority during a disaster "to get help quickly to those in desperate need of our assistance."

"Even as we put victims first, we take very seriously our responsibility to be outstanding stewards of taxpayer dollars, and we are careful to make sure that funds are distributed appropriately," Walker said.

FEMA said it has identified more than 1,500 cases of potential fraud after Katrina and Rita and has referred those cases to the Homeland Security Department's inspector general. The agency said it has identified $16.8 million in improperly awarded disaster relief money and has started efforts to collect the money.

The GAO said it was 95 percent confident that improper and potentially fraudulent payments were much higher — between $600 million and $1.4 billion.

The investigative agency said it found people lodged in hotels often were paid twice, since FEMA gave them individual rental assistance and paid hotels directly. FEMA paid California hotels $8,000 to house one individual — the same person who received three rental assistance payments for both disasters.

In another instance, FEMA paid an individual $2,358 in rental assistance, while at the same time paying about $8,000 for the same person to stay 70 nights at more than $100 per night in a Hawaii hotel.

FEMA also could not establish that 750 debit cards worth $1.5 million even went to Katrina victims, the auditors said.

Among the items purchased with the cards:

_An all-inclusive, one-week Caribbean vacation in the Punta Cana resort in the Dominican Republic.

_Five season tickets to New Orleans Saints professional football games.

_Adult erotica products in Houston and "Girls Gone Wild" videos in Santa Monica, Calif.

_Dom Perignon champagne and other alcoholic beverages in San Antonio.

"Our forensic audit and investigative work showed that improper and potentially fraudulent payments occurred mainly because FEMA did not validate the identity of the registrant, the physical location of the damaged address, and ownership and occupancy of all registrants at the time of registration," GAO officials said.

FEMA paid millions of dollars to more than 1,000 registrants who used names and Social Security numbers belonging to state and federal prisoners for expedited housing assistance. The inmates were in Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia and Florida.

FEMA made about $5.3 million in payments to registrants who provided a post office box as their damaged residence, including one who got $2,748 for listing an Alabama post office box as the damaged property.

The GAO told of an individual who used 13 different Social Security numbers — including the person's own — to receive $139,000 in payments on 13 separate registrations for aid. All the payments were sent to a single address.

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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manchild wrote:Fresh news...
FEMA funds spent on divorce, sex change
I have been silent during this thread, but I would like to contribute a little (or a lot, after seeing the length of my post):

I took a time to grasp (and that if I have done it), USA and Americans. Yes, they call themselves that, sorry for us, rest of the "Americas" folks. I guess is short for "United-States-of-Americans", or worse, "United-Statians". I don't dare to call them "North-Americans", mainly because of DaveKillens and his fellow citizens, nor, God forbids, the most familiar derogatory (and some times, friendly) term "gringos"... :)

Yes, the gringos. If I were one, I would be proud of this term or whatever it is associated with it. Some of them are really unique, from Jefferson to Thoreau, from Washington to Rooselvet. But I am not here to praise their virtues, but to try to explain what I did not got from them at the beginning and that maybe explains a little the whole "Katrina affair".

I agree with Dave and dare to expand his definition: I would claim that every form of government can be called a social experiment. Its outcomes determine its future shape, and I think this is the short answer to the question raised.

In this view, America is a novel experiment of 200 years. China, a newer one with let's say 50 years or 2000, it depends on how you look at it.

I approached USA with the confidence of an adolescent that was raised by a 2000 years old culture, in Spain, and that judged everything "through the mind of the greeks" and the "taste of Paris", which are still good for me, I have to say. I used to walk throug a roman road when I was five or six and since then I have judged every one of them (roads) through the eyes of this child, if I am allowed to add, in a latin rapture. :wink:

But after a while livin' in USA, I would say you cannot judge on the strength or weakness of a system only by its results, even if sure they got some. They have some smart rules, too. I know the world is slowly moving toward the Central Government, but it can be convenient a dispersed authority as us, anarchists :oops: would like to test to the extreme.

I worked as a federal employee for the FHWA, the road administration for a couple of years. I have worked as a national government employee for the Colombian one. Differences (at least for roads, that is what I really know):

- Federal money for roads is split between states using a formula. No congressman lobbies the FHWA as decissions on projects are made at state level, once every state knows the amount it has been approved. Colombian money was lobbied road by road by the congressmen to the central bureaucracy (ring a bell?).

- Federal agency cannot spend more of 3% of the money on itself (God bless the inventor of this simple but effective restraint). There were no limits, nor accountability for Ministers in Colombia, where elections were paid with government positions in the huge central authority.

- Money is available for 5 years (!) and there are no tied-up funds: federal government refunds only constructions delivered, on a monthly basis (they pay you for the work you got approved last month). You had to lobby on a yearly basis for "your project" in Colombia and pray for your payments, made through heavy bureaucracy.

- Responsability for maintenance of the network resides totally on the states. A state that does not maintain properly its roads loses the Federal help (it has happened twice since 1919).

- The political plan (the actual layout of the main network) has not changed in an important way since the 1950's, when it was agreed upon. There was no explicit government plan in Colombia.

Yes, the Federal agency was much more weaker than the Colombian one for a response to an emergency. They were not centralized. But they had built 6 million kilometers of highway this way. Colombia had less than 100.000, with a fifth of the populaton, and in much, much worst conditions. Colombia has changed the ways I described (I have done what I have could) learning from them a little.

Yes, their employees were lazier than the colombian ones (to my surprise!) and as Manchild points out, equally corruptible or "cheatable", or more, as it seems FEMA was simply too lax spreading the money.

This is another funny characteristic of these guys. For example, last time I checked, a sizable part of their population opposed a national identity card and you could flash happily strange things like your phone receipt to prove you were yourself. This does not happen in Colombia (or Spain!), where the national identity number accompanies you "from crib to tomb". You would not believe what I could do with a federal employee ID: everybody trusted me. I was used to the "certificate of the certificate" culture.

I really find admirable (like the Roman Empire, that tried to do the same, at least during the Republic) that you can manage such a world power state without worse abuse of power. They may not be perfect as they frequently claim, but they have a good system, I would say, mainly because their central agencies are weak on purpose. This used to give you a freedom that is hard to explain to anybody that has not lived in Nederland, Sweden or California. Times are a'changing, I know, and every system passes its prime.

I also know they have a sorry story outside their borders, they like it or not, specially here in Latin America, and that they were founded before socialism, so I am not claiming they have the best system. It seems to me they do not understand socialism, as they lack essential things like universal health coverage, and that maybe their institutions confuse it with communism and lack of truly "puritan" spirit of work.

The racism of some rules and customs is astonishing for a latin. Here we all, like me, have a black grandma, an indian grandpa, some arab ancestor, an asian girlfriend and a jew relative. But, well, Latin America is not exactly the social-equalitarian heaven, if for motives of money instead of race, so who am I to criticize? Besides african americans and latins get along really easy and my moderately pale skin and good accent made it easy for me to blend with the WASPs, so I went untouched through this ugly side of the nation. Being colombian helps, if only because the bad press helps you to "scare away" major troubles... :wink:

But look what other countries send abroad: their sailors and warriors and keener traders. Erasmus did not colonize the "West Indies" nor Spain sent Fray Luis de León to America. Maybe it would be better (I do not know) if Sweden were the only world superpower, but given the choice, we are not that bad right now. I bet some of them are doing what they can. Imagine what a more centralized state would do: for example, and I am not trying to offend anybody, imagine China as sole world superpower. USA still might be able to correct itself.

Tomba, Principessa, I would not blame you if you edit this less than useful post on an F1 technical site. Actually, some editing could help, as it is simply too long. I just wanted to say something positive and got carried away. Besides, I believe the road commentaries could be useful to other people in the world. :wink:
Ciro

miqi23
miqi23
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jgredline
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Location: Los Angeles

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Liberal American hating web sites.
It never seizes to amaze me how many liberal american hating people live here. I have often wondered and thought that if its so bad here why don't they LEAVE. Just leave. America is a free country and people are not held here against their will. I thank God that my dad moved here legally I might add and I have had the oppertunity to grow up and live here all my life. I have traveled all over this planet and again I thank God I live here in the U.S. even with its problems. I am not disrespecting where anybody lives or their country as I am sure many of you feel the same way about where you live and you should. I am pround to be an American or as Ciro said United States American..
I could into a very political debate about Katrina, but why?? bring politics into this wonderful forum. I have customers that come to see me from all over this planet and many times we don't even speak the same language, but we have the love of the car and engines in comman and we somehow always manage to communicate. While we all have differant opinions here concerning F1 thats what makes it good.
Keep this web site about F1.
To finish first, first you must finish.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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I'm not too familiar with what liberals are saying but from a quick glance at these sites it appears that they point their finger on government which has nothing to do with hate against America. Every dictator’s dream is to equalize existence of his regime with existence of the country so that any attack on his regime he can present to masses as attack on the country itself.

Flower-power movement that was most useful movement in American history was also blamed for "hating" America while it only opposed warmongering government and individuals. Sadly, since Bush jr. came on power Nixon seams like a little kid compared to Bush's crimes. Now it shows that time of 40 years since Flower-power movement has been wasted as conservative religious population in US still manages to win elections.

What we have today is a global conflict between Christian religious fanatics from US and Islamic religious fanatics from WWW (whole wide world). In this global war first are represented by US army and second by terrorists. Both of them are so very wrong and both of them bringing harm to humanity and this because their goals have nothing to do with what they complain about. I’m sure that most of the people on this planet don’t support any of these two sides and their actions even though both of them pretend to be victims and get full support from impartial people who suffer from it everyday without having anything to do with it.

I love America but nowadays it looks sliced in half with one half being closer to fascistic society rather than anything else. There are so many good things and so many bad things as a part of same society which makes things confusing just like some 40 years ago. It is still a dream land but it won’t remain like that for much longer if backward ideas and groups prevail.

As John Lennon wrote...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

*Sadly, I don’t see any modern “John Lennons”as music is being sold like hamburgers and majority of young people who could make a change turned into brainwashed consumers of big corporations.*