Shifting at lights

[Tom]

I was heading at 40mph towards the paddock. Reverse was the only thing that would have slowed it down enough. Handbrake is also knackered by the way.

On the road your idea would work but on the stage the car wouldn't have slowed down enough. Unfortunetly it was on the long downhill stretch before a hairpin left and I dabbed the brakes because they had felt spongy before. Nothing happened so I slammed it into reverse for a few seconds and turned into the fence.

[wazojugs]

I was heading at 40mph towards the paddock. Reverse was the only thing that would have slowed it down enough. Handbrake is also knackered by the way.

On the road your idea would work but on the stage the car wouldn't have slowed down enough. Unfortunetly it was on the long downhill stretch before a hairpin left and I dabbed the brakes because they had felt spongy before. Nothing happened so I slammed it into reverse for a few seconds and turned into the fence.

arrh sorry didn't know you were in a race car, i should read a bit closer

[manchild]

No way man! Saves on the brake discs. For me, it also balances the car very differently.

In book The Art & Technique of Driving, Pat Moss denyied use of engine braking and wrote something like - "brakes are there to slow the cars down even if you're drving on ice". Remember that when she wrote it there was no ABS, radial tyres, traction control etc.

I'm not the one who does so and in normal traffic engine braking should be common practice especially on icy roads but I'm sure that lady new why she wrote what she wrote

At age 34 she had won:

European championship 1958, 1960, 1962, 1964 and 1965

1962 Dutch Tulip Rally and Deutschland Rally, in a B.M.C Cooper
After her marriage she joined Lancia and ran in several more rallies, also in SAAB cars:

2nd in the Sanremo rally ('flower rally')
2nd in the 1962 East African Safari Rally, in a Saab 96
7th in the Corsica rally
3rd overall in the 1965 Monte Carlo Rally
7x 1st in the Coupe des Dames of the MC rally

[wazojugs]

if you want to read a good book on the skill of driving read a British Police Advance driving book.

Police advanced drivers are in the top 3% of drivers in the UK, so what is written will be good to put in practice no whether you have just passed or have been driving a long time.

[kilcoo316]

if you want to read a good book on the skill of driving read a British Police Advance driving book.

Police advanced drivers are in the top 3% of drivers in the UK, so what is written will be good to put in practice no whether you have just passed or have been driving a long time.

And you laugh at other people and their driving comments on here.





What is push pulling on the steering going to do for you when the back end steps out => put you in a bee-line for the nearest ditch thats what!

[kilcoo316]

No way man! Saves on the brake discs. For me, it also balances the car very differently.

In book The Art & Technique of Driving, Pat Moss denyied use of engine braking and wrote something like - "brakes are there to slow the cars down even if you're drving on ice". Remember that when she wrote it there was no ABS, radial tyres, traction control etc.

I'm not the one who does so and in normal traffic engine braking should be common practice especially on icy roads but I'm sure that lady new why she wrote what she wrote

Don't care what she wrote to be honest. I know the difference it makes for me in the car, it gives me much more front end grip as the braking is split nearer 50/50 instead of 60/40 (the brake bias).

I'd also be 99.9% sure that all racing drivers use engine braking at some points - for instance, some quick corners, you see the drivers downshift - why do you think they do that? Brake without using the front wheels (or like me, to use them less), so they can devote their grip to turning the car.

[West]

My brother tells me just coast to a stop when in high gear, then put it into neutral and brake. My dad and coworker tell me to use engine braking. I prefer the former because it sounds easier and I don't get that jerkiness. I don't plan to go fast or anything. It sounds to me that you use engine braking when u drive really hard or for an emergency stop.

I'm a new driver btw, so any comments or tips would be appreciated. It's still hard for me to get into gear on upslope. I've only been driving since Tuesday, in my defense.

[wazojugs]

What is push pulling on the steering going to do for you when the back end steps out => put you in a bee-line for the nearest ditch thats what!

I really think you don't know what your talking about!

[Venom]

I wonder how this discussion is gonna end up

I think it's little bit sad to brake using the engine in order to save the brake pads+discs.

kilcoo316 are you talking about rear wheel drive or fwd?. When you brake with your engine, the brake bias is 100:0 (FWD) 0:100 (RWD). Or, do you have 4x4?

Brake bias should be more forward because that's where the engine is therefore there is more weigh distribution shifted to the front and so there is more grip. Anyway, why would you need more grip? If you're driving normally you don't need it, if you're stoping in emergency - God help you with the gear shifting.

[RH1300S]

Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into an argument

[Tom]

The highway code mentions you should use engine braking and I reakon either way the damage is so small it won't make a difference.

When I'm driving proper I take my foot off the gas and right foot brake until I slow down enough to stall then I clutch it and shift down. I don't know if thats how it should be done but its what I do.

kilcoo316 wrote:

What is push pulling on the steering going to do for you when the back end steps out => put you in a bee-line for the nearest ditch thats what!

I know what your talking about but I don't know why you said it. You are right if you mean that yerking the steering from side to side will cause trouble with a fishtail (weight transfering quickly from left to right can just about but you on your roof. I've seen it done.) yet I don't think anyone said you should do that?

In a RWD it will cause more trouble than a FWD because pulling is more stable than pushing. Does that make sense? Also in theory in a FWD if you are in a fishtail and you floor the throttle it should pull it out of the problem, but you might not end up facing the right way and you have to do it sharpish!

[manchild]

Don't care what she wrote to be honest. I'd also be 99.9% sure that all racing drivers use engine braking at some points - for instance, some quick corners, you see the drivers downshift - why do you think they do that? Brake without using the front wheels (or like me, to use them less), so they can devote their grip to turning the car.

I mentioned Pat as someone we can certianly all learn from. Sometimes learing things on your own can be too difficult and hard to achieve so I like to hear what more experieced people have to say. Ignoring such racing authority is something I don't understand...

Good racing downshifting includes keeping rpm as high as possible during downshifts. That is why heel and toe technique exists.

"Brake without using the front wheels"?

Why (and how to) downshift without previosly hitting the brakes if engine is in high rpm? That only makes sense if car is already in mid-low rpm and at speed not matching gear.

[kilcoo316]

I wonder how this discussion is gonna end up

I think it's little bit sad to brake using the engine in order to save the brake pads+discs.

kilcoo316 are you talking about rear wheel drive or fwd?. When you brake with your engine, the brake bias is 100:0 (FWD) 0:100 (RWD). Or, do you have 4x4?

Brake bias should be more forward because that's where the engine is therefore there is more weigh distribution shifted to the front and so there is more grip. Anyway, why would you need more grip? If you're driving normally you don't need it, if you're stoping in emergency - God help you with the gear shifting.

Yeah, I've a quattro at the moment, in the old clio I'd actually keep on the accelerator and brake with my left foot into corners if I could.


Yeah, at times I drive like an utter eejit and know it, but its too addictive

[kilcoo316]

Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into an argument

Hey argument is good for a bit of craic


Get things heated up on here.


All we have to do now is say Michael Schumacher says all good drivers engine brake and Manchild will go mad

[kilcoo316]

I know what your talking about but I don't know why you said it. You are right if you mean that yerking the steering from side to side will cause trouble with a fishtail (weight transfering quickly from left to right can just about but you on your roof. I've seen it done.) yet I don't think anyone said you should do that?

No, I meant the silly obsession with having hands at 9 and 3 all the time.


Its ok in a racing car with its steering rack, but not a road car, it encourages 'stiffness' (thats not really the right word - tenseness or something along those lines) on the wheel and slows up rapid steering movement.