Petition to FIA - 2026 rules canceled, V10s in 2028

[Sevach]

Audi and Mercedes are the first 2 to come out and say no to this (as expected).
I would love to see it frankly but manufacturers and their agenda will hate it no doubt.

[TeamKoolGreen]

It is necessary to come back to simplier and most effective engines.

What you are describing is a low cylinder count turbo engine. Inline 4, or maybe a V4? For cost reasons even a standard engine for all teams would do. A hyper high reving V10 is not the logical choice for performance and cost.
True, the V10 sound is hilarious. But how many percent of the fans ever get to hear the engines live? I followed F1 for about 15 years before going to a race. And my home cinema system isn't anywhere close to do the sound justice. 99% of the fans only hear via speakers anyway.

A V8 would be the most relevant since there is so many V8's being used by MFG'ers in racing right now

[Zynerji]

Who cares about relevance?!

Pick something like a pushrod v10 with no exotics and let them run strung-out 1950s tech at its limit. 1 engine and trans per event.

Costs go down, fan engagement goes up, team personnel enjoyment is increased.

The only drawback is the weight goes down and.the fuel tank increases.

Cheap cheap racing at.the top!

[Seanspeed]

Who cares about relevance?!

Pick something like a pushrod v10 with no exotics and let them run strung-out 1950s tech at its limit. 1 engine and trans per event.

Costs go down, fan engagement goes up, team personnel enjoyment is increased.

The only drawback is the weight goes down and.the fuel tank increases.

Cheap cheap racing at.the top!

The engine manufacturers care. And that's the big, HUGE drawback of trying to push ahead with this, because it would cause serious participation issues. It's all well and good to draw up some idealized, fan-perfect formula, but the sports needs teams and engine manufacturers to actually want to invest and participate for it to matter.

[Zynerji]

Who cares about relevance?!

Pick something like a pushrod v10 with no exotics and let them run strung-out 1950s tech at its limit. 1 engine and trans per event.

Costs go down, fan engagement goes up, team personnel enjoyment is increased.

The only drawback is the weight goes down and.the fuel tank increases.

Cheap cheap racing at.the top!

The engine manufacturers care. And that's the big, HUGE drawback of trying to push ahead with this, because it would cause serious participation issues. It's all well and good to draw up some idealized, fan-perfect formula, but the sports needs teams and engine manufacturers to actually want to invest and participate for it to matter.

The value to the manufacturers is in the marketing, not the engine configuration.

Current engines are 2014 tech, yet no F1 manufacturer offers the mgu-h/k hybrid in a road vehicle. So why does it matter?

They will participate, no matter what. Mandating cheaper engine types that draw more ears only increases the marketing value, and the manufacturers know that.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Nope.

F1 is supposed to be cutting edge, not old fashioned.

Also if they scrap the 2026 PU, we can say goodbye to Ford and Audi, probably Mercedes and Honda as well. We already lost Renault, so that leaves Ferrari and Red Bull.....

All because some people think excess noise is a good thing??

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Who cares about relevance?!

Pick something like a pushrod v10 with no exotics and let them run strung-out 1950s tech at its limit. 1 engine and trans per event.

Costs go down, fan engagement goes up, team personnel enjoyment is increased.

The only drawback is the weight goes down and.the fuel tank increases.

Cheap cheap racing at.the top!

Where is your evidence that fan engagement goes up??

F1 is bigger now than it has EVER been. The only people I see calling for a move BACK to OLD technologies are a small minority of fans.

F1 cars are loud as it is. It's entirely possible that a lot of those newer fans would be turned OFF by cars that are so loud they hurt because, hard as it is for some of us on here to believe, the average fan doesn't care about the PU architecture.

[ringo]

A v10 is not necessarily low tech. It only is if we are talking the old f1 v10.
A new F1 v10 can have prechamber combustion, a hybrid motor on the crank shaft, more exotic materials and cooling and lubricating solutiosn just like the v6 hybrid we have now.
The Bugatti Tourbillion is actually showing the way with where the sports car trend us going now and that's a V16 hybrid.
I would keep the new 50% electric engine coming in 2026 because it's too late now to scrap them. But then i would scrap them in 2029 for the V10.

3.5 litre V10, carbon neutral fuel, carbon fiber block maybe, prechamber ignition, 21,000rpm limit. No turbos, KERS, hitech batteries, 8 engines per season.

[Zynerji]

Who cares about relevance?!

Pick something like a pushrod v10 with no exotics and let them run strung-out 1950s tech at its limit. 1 engine and trans per event.

Costs go down, fan engagement goes up, team personnel enjoyment is increased.

The only drawback is the weight goes down and.the fuel tank increases.

Cheap cheap racing at.the top!

Where is your evidence that fan engagement goes up??

F1 is bigger now than it has EVER been. The only people I see calling for a move BACK to OLD technologies are a small minority of fans.

F1 cars are loud as it is. It's entirely possible that a lot of those newer fans would be turned OFF by cars that are so loud they hurt because, hard as it is for some of us on here to believe, the average fan doesn't care about the PU architecture.

[Seanspeed]

The value to the manufacturers is in the marketing, not the engine configuration.

Current engines are 2014 tech, yet no F1 manufacturer offers the mgu-h/k hybrid in a road vehicle. So why does it matter?

They will participate, no matter what. Mandating cheaper engine types that draw more ears only increases the marketing value, and the manufacturers know that.

It's very obvious that the marketing value of F1 for them is not just based on the racing though, but also the technology.

If it was as simple as you're saying, we'd never have had hybrid powertrains to begin with. This whole thing, as well as the 2026 engine regulations, were based entirely on what the manufacturers wanted. So I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from that they dont care about this stuff, or that they'd all go along with this no question, or that some new or even existing entrants wouldn't leave over it. One of the whole points of the new 2026 regulations was specifically to attract more manufacturers. You think they'd be happy being told all their R&D(on what are very nearly finalized engines at this point) has to be tossed in the trash can and that they'd stick around to start from scratch on a whole new engine?

[r85]

A v10 is not necessarily low tech. It only is if we are talking the old f1 v10.
A new F1 v10 can have prechamber combustion, a hybrid motor on the crank shaft, more exotic materials and cooling and lubricating solutiosn just like the v6 hybrid we have now.
The Bugatti Tourbillion is actually showing the way with where the sports car trend us going now and that's a V16 hybrid.
I would keep the new 50% electric engine coming in 2026 because it's too late now to scrap them. But then i would scrap them in 2029 for the V10.

3.5 litre V10, carbon neutral fuel, carbon fiber block maybe, prechamber ignition, 21,000rpm limit. No turbos, KERS, hitech batteries, 8 engines per season.

Can't compare Bugatti's use of the V16 in this scenario because such cars will never be built at scale and buying a Bugatti is more like buying jewelry than a car. The Ferrari F80, 296 GTB and Porsche 911 GTS T-Hybrid show the current trend of sports car industry with their V6 Hybrid engines.

[ringo]

The F80 is somewhat a dissapointment regardless of how fast it can go around a track. No one who can afford it or even the SF90 are really excited about it; hence why sf90 prices are so depressed. The super rich are turning to the older supercars for a more involving driving experience.
Road relevence from F1 never matters for mass produced vehicles. It really only mattered for limited production luxury cars that guzzle fuel.
The V10 format will do nothing to hurt the ultra car market. It will do more for F1's attractiveness and spectacle.
Case in point is carbon fiber. It's been used in F1 for 40 years and still is not a road relevant construction material for mass production cars.
I am sure not even 0.001% of road vehicles have an ounce of carbon fiber on them.

[r85]

It's pretty ironic that they have 18 inch tires for the sake of road relevance, but they have to degrade for the show. The rest is just greenwashing and marketing exercises for automakers.

It is still quite an achievement that they have made the engines as efficient as they are, which is why it's hard to see them going to V10s. I'm still optimistic that they'll find some sort of compromise to bring some noise and emotion back to F1 cars...

[Richard C]

F1 is bigger now than it has EVER been. The only people I see calling for a move BACK to OLD technologies are a small minority of fans.

How are you measuring who all asking for the V10. And as called out "V10" is not necessarily "old technology". I do think there is a push for...

1. Simpler
2. Cheaper
3. Potential for lighter/smaller cars
4. And to service various fan request (such as noise).

F1 cars are loud as it is. It's entirely possible that a lot of those newer fans would be turned OFF by cars that are so loud they hurt because, hard as it is for some of us on here to believe, the average fan doesn't care about the PU architecture.

You do understand the irony of your argument right? We don't want to move back to something like the V10 because it is "old technology" and at the same time say that the average fan doesn't care about the PU details? I would agree with you. The average fan doesn't care about the details of "how" and are more interested in the "experience" and I would offer a suggestion (without evidence) that on average most fans likely would find the "old technology" engines more exciting and a better experience. Have we forgotten about the complaints regarding sound when we moved to this current formula? I expect people are generally habituated to it, but at the same time if given an A/B comparison would likely pick the louder more raw engines.

Richard

[Greg Locock]

Why do you lot have a fetish for nasty old V10s? They are the answer to a question nobody sane asked. V12 too long? Go for a V8.