loughing my a** off

[DaveKillens]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/c ... 028585.stm

This could go on forever, but it won't.

[Giancarlo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/c ... 028585.stm

This could go on forever, but it won't.

Cute.

Post some some filth from the BBC and then cower away. I put the BBC just below Ajazeera in the list of 'unbiased news coverage'. I'm not going to let you off the hook easily, so here's the BBC bias tech:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2006-07-21db.html
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/blair- ... 34374.html
http://www.greatestjeneration.com/archives/001001.php
http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/04/ ... _lade.html

Solid evidence has emerged to suggest that a recent poll by the BBC's World Service, was not only systematically rigged, but that bin Laden's offer of a truce with Europe a mere six days after the survey's results were published, may indicate that the BBC's anti—American propaganda is aiding, abetting and encouraging bin Laden's strategy to divide America and Europe.

and:

The BBC article is not shy and begins by announcing its central finding:

'Globalisation and the US pose a more serious threat to the world than war and terrorism, according to a BBC poll.'

Now there's no need to go any further with this debate.

[DaveKillens]

I'm not cowering anywhere.
I have my opinion, and you have yours. We've stated our positions, there's no need to drag the forum through endless, pointless debate.

[Principessa]

To say that '...the average US citizen, while he may be aware of many wonderful things done by the military, knows very little about the mistakes' is bullshit. It's the complete opposite. We hear all the mistakes, even if their not true...

I'm sorry Giancarlo but I really think that you are forgetting about the beginning of the war and ... let us say the biggest part of the war.
America, 'the country of freedom', where there is press freedom, but it isn't allowed. Months and months (this might have been changed now as there is FINALLY a lot of protest against the war) media wasn't allowed to show pictures or video material of the coffins, they weren't allowed to film in hospitals where there were American soldiers,.... Government Bush did everything to prevent the people from knowing about this, knowing that fellow Americans died because of HIS war. His daddy had a war, he has to have one as well.
In America, the protest against Bush is now growing and growing, but believe me, if the Americans would have been completely informed before the elections, Bush wouldn't have a second term! Nobody would have been so foolish to vote for him a second time.

Press freedom is just a term, but still the government are the onces MAKING the news. Propaganda didn't die together with the dictatorial regimes, propaganda is very much alive in our own DEMOCRATIC and FREE society.

So, please don't say that the Americans are SO well informed about the war, because they are not! And not only in America we watch the news to see false newsreports (Jessica Lynch being a beautiful example of it), but around the globe.

I've been given the course 'Media' in highschool and I believe everyone should receive it because now I can watch the news and take things with a grain of salt.




To say one more thing about the Bush matter: He's going to take some more money (healthcar money now) to sponsor his war. How can a man sponsor a war by neglecting his own country and people? He's just a maniac...he has the same idea pace as the big dictators from our past!
America is ready for a white woman or a black man as their president!!

[allan]

I'm not cowering anywhere.
I have my opinion, and you have yours. We've stated our positions, there's no need to drag the forum through endless, pointless debate.

u r right dave, everybody has his own opinion, i honestly think that giancarlo's opinion is based on the media itself... but at the end, it's his opinion.. and according to the american democracy, everyone has his own "FREE" opinion..

[Tom]

It occured to me when I read your comment pricipessa:

Americans died because of HIS war. His daddy had a war, he has to have one as well.

In future the bush family will be remembered the same way as William the Conquerer and his father, as cruel and horrible tyrants, and I know that comment will spark controversy, but let me make it perfectly clear, that is not my opinion, its not really an opinion at all, whichever country this history is in taught these people will not be remembered for freeing Iraqi's, but for murdering hundereds of innocents for oil. I know that's harsh but thats the way it is, and as a result American's will be measured the same way, as the country who supported, defended and worshipped this cruel and murderous family.

Before you start countering this comment think really carefully, don't concentrate on the words I used, anyone can pick holes in a sentance, think about exactly what I mean and think about how your comment will reflect on you, as a person, in the future.

[Giancarlo]

I'm sorry Giancarlo but I really think that you are forgetting about the beginning of the war and ... let us say the biggest part of the war.
America, 'the country of freedom', where there is press freedom, but it isn't allowed. Months and months (this might have been changed now as there is FINALLY a lot of protest against the war) media wasn't allowed to show pictures or video material of the coffins, they weren't allowed to film in hospitals where there were American soldiers,....

Just as the media has freedom, it has responsibility. Remember, the media is not a charitable organization nor is it a not-for-profit. The media makes $ by selling advertising. Capitalizing on the sacrifice of our armed forces is both irresponsible and grotesque. Another way to look at it is this: imagine finding out your loved one died by watching the news. Does the media notify next of kin? Nope, they're in it to sell advertising come hell or high water. Bad news sells, so that's what we get.

Having inbed journalists is a privledge that the US Gov grants the media. There are certain agreements concerning the broadcast of our fallen soldiers. The US military is sensitive to those lost and their families, thus they require the media to honor and respect the fallen by keeping things private. You can scream 'conspiracy' or '1st amendment' all you want, contrary to where you may come from, we are asked to respect the deceased.

Government Bush did everything to prevent the people from knowing about this, knowing that fellow Americans died because of HIS war.

And what answer do you have for this problem, the problem being terrorists that want to kill us at all cost? This is not his war, it is OUR war against terrorism. For over a decade Iraq was in violation of cease-fire agreements, harbored terrorism, and the UN was certain that Iraq was manufacturing WMD. What did everyone do? Well, France, China & Russia made some reprehensible deals with Saddam while everyone else wrote memos and gave press conferences. What did our President do? He kick ass and took names. Now instead of the Kurds fearing another chemical attack, they're building town-homes and shopping centers. The old Hussain torture chambers are gone and so if the oppression.

GWB and our military have so far toppled 2 tyrannical governments in order to bring peace and prosperity to a region that has forgotten what human rights and hope are. That will go down in history as a very noble cause. While the world watched, America and its allies took action and did the right thing.

His daddy had a war, he has to have one as well.

The Gulf War was decided upon by the UN, not George HW Bush.

In America, the protest against Bush is now growing and growing, but believe me, if the Americans would have been completely informed before the elections, Bush wouldn't have a second term! Nobody would have been so foolish to vote for him a second time.

The same people that are blaming Bush offer no solutions. The same people that are now asking for a redeployment are the same ones that voted for the war and for an increase of troops. Now they want to remove everyone and cut funding. Wow, that's taken right from the John Kerry book of Flip-Flop politics.

Now if you look at history, Americans have, since the 18th century, grown weary of wars after three years. If the war goes on longer, the politicians have to scramble to survive the bad press and opinion polls. Opposition politicians take advantage of the situation, but this has nothing to do with Iraq, and everything to do with local politics in the United States.

Press freedom is just a term, but still the government are the onces MAKING the news. Propaganda didn't die together with the dictatorial regimes, propaganda is very much alive in our own DEMOCRATIC and FREE society.

What propaganda do you speak of? Is it the skewed bleeding-heart bias of our media that is trying to undermine the war effort? That's propaganda if you ask me.

So, please don't say that the Americans are SO well informed about the war, because they are not! And not only in America we watch the news to see false newsreports (Jessica Lynch being a beautiful example of it), but around the globe.

WTF are you talking about? Are you trying to put words in my post that I never wrote?

I've been given the course 'Media' in highschool and I believe everyone should receive it because now I can watch the news and take things with a grain of salt.

Well, since you just took a course in 'media' that makes you an expert? You can watch the news and take things with a grain of salt, yet you chimed in on a discussion concerning the bias in the media. So which is it: do you take what the media says with a grain of salt b/c that what you learned in H.S. or do you just have selective attention and focus on what YOU want to hear & read? If it's the former, you wouldn't have joined this post.

To say one more thing about the Bush matter: He's going to take some more money (healthcar money now) to sponsor his war.

If you want healthcare, buy it. If you can't afford it, get a job with healthcare benefits. If you are too lazy to go out and find a job, you suck at life and should not be rewarded with free healthcare. Unless you are permanently disabled, there's no reason why you can't find a job w/healthcare. Every job I've ever had since I was 16 has offered healthcare, and I've had some crap jobs before. It is not the government's job to supply healthcare, people need to be responsible for themselves and take care of their own future and well-being. If that takes working 2 jobs and going to school, so-be-it.

How can a man sponsor a war by neglecting his own country and people? He's just a maniac...he has the same idea pace as the big dictators from our past!

Fighting a war against terror is neglecting America and Americans? With that logic, putting burglars in jail is neglecting property owners. Seems like you suffer from looking at history as you see fit.

America is ready for a white woman or a black man as their president!!

The only white woman that I'd have complete confidence as our President is Ann Coulter. A former Clinton political advisor Dick Morris is quoted as saying "Hillary is a monster!' That quote comes from someone who worked with Bill Clinton throughout his presidency.

Concerning Obama - he's worthless. How do I know this? I live in Illinois! I remember when he was running for office, he would never answer a question. HE would dance around the issues and come out really never saying anything. Since he was elected, he has never really done anything!

One topic which he always ran away from, which we'll all get to see again, is that he is both a reverend in a christian church and is Pro-Choice and Pro-partial birth abortion. Well, if that isn't a character flaw I don't know what is. He'll flush any morals he has down the toilet just so he can be elected. Is that the kind of person who you want as a leader? Someone who can't explain where he stands on a subject and someone who will abandon their beliefs just so they can get elected?

You have one candidate being called a monster by someone who is close to her husband and another who has no identity and morals. Where do they stand on Iran? What will they do about terrorism? What we do know is that taxes will go up, productivity will go down, and terrorists world-wide will rejoice w/a democrat in office.

"We've finally given liberals a war against fundamentalism, and they don't want to fight it. They would, except it would put them on the same side as the United States."

- Ann Coulter

And for those that are oblivious:
I am Pro Bush (voted for him both times!)
I am Pro Military
I am Pro Capitalism

[DaveKillens]

Did you ever watch Teletubbies? I think the one with the purse is gay...

[miqi23]

Giancarlo, its about time mate, you make me smile with your stupid comments and your philosphy on war or terror. It is all bullcrap, basically this is how it works - You create a crises and you offer a solution, simple as that.

The US Govt. has a history in doing this and if you consider yourself aware enough you would not be saying all what you have said. I am not talking about the US citizens here, just the evil tyrants that run the US. Vietnam for example, what was the pretext to war with them?

You would know that Saddam was Bush's man and did what ever Bush wanted him to do, however Saddam was trialed for his crimes against humanity by killling those innocent people in that town. What about those Chemical weapons Bush provided to use against the Iranians? It never came up in your so called free media. Because it will hamper Bush's ass. And there are loads more I can shed light on but I cant be bothered to waste time on something as common as this.

Giancarlo, get your facts right please.

[mcdenife]

It is not the government's job to supply healthcare, people need to be responsible for themselves and take care of their own future and well-being. If that takes working 2 jobs and going to school, so-be-it.

que?

One topic which he always ran away from, which we'll all get to see again, is that he is both a reverend in a christian church and is Pro-Choice and Pro-partial birth abortion.

and this is a character flaw?

Concerning Obama - he's worthless.

Another human being worthless??

there's no reason why you can't find a job w/healthcare

Wow, wow. I can finally put a form/shape (but sadly no face) to arogance and ignorance.

[dumrick]

Giancarlo is really a product of the propaganda machine in the US. Never read someone with such a lack of own thinking...

[bhall]

It's just funny to me that people on both sides of the issue are speaking in such generalities. Only a fool thinks that way.

[DaveKillens]

You know, two different people can stand at two different parts of a road intersection, witness an accident, and come away with two different opinions on the accident. It's all about our personal perceptions, attitudes, environment, how we're feeeling, countless factors.
And when I was about 12 years old on France, in 1962, listening to both "Radio Free America", and "Radio Free Moscow" on shortwave, I learned that there are different sides to a story, and the meaning of the word "propaganda".
So now, when I try to examine the news and world events, I pull information from many sites, and try to filter the truth from the propaganda. I check CNN, BBC, People Daily Online, heck, even Al Jazeera. I never doscount a source just because I don't like what they are saying. All of this doesn't make me a wiser or smarter person, but I believe it makes me a better informed person, more aware of what's really happening.
The topic got into the crap in Iraq, a very contentious isssue around the world. There is support for it, there is opposition, many disagree with others. We all have our personal opinions, we are entitled to them and to be able to voice them, and even though we may disagree, that doesn't make us enemies.
Believe it or not, I listen to and respect the opinions of Giancarlo, Ray, and others. But I also listen to and respect those on the opposite position. I just reserve the right to disagree, and try very hard to respect the other's opinion. And if we disagree, that doesn't make that other a fool or something lesser. Nor does it diminish their right to freedom of speech.
It just means we disagree, and we don't need to get nasty or fight.

[miqi23]

It's just funny to me that people on both sides of the issue are speaking in such generalities. Only a fool thinks that way.

What do you mean?

[bhall]

I meant that one cannot make broad statements about anything and be correct. First, there's no such thing as "correct;" there's only perception. And second, there are many viewpoints here in this thread that are only coming from one perspective.

For instance, it was stated earlier that Americans are uninformed, and that's how W got re-elected president.

For the record, I didn't vote for the man. In fact, I can't stand him as a person or as a leader. But I find that statement amusing because it lacks understanding. Americans are largely informed. We just have different opinions based on that information. That's the beauty/flaw of democracy.

I don't know. I guess this is just your typical political discussion. You just have to laugh at it and be thankful that it doesn't amount to anything.