What about Formula 1.5?

[Conceptual]

"But, if you want to watch the current F1 instead, I guess you just don't want to lose your favorite thing to hate." Chris

Chris - Don't be a troll. Never think you know what my opinions are, I'll write them and post them myself.

In the first thread on the subject I wrote my opinion. I'll offer it with a few mild restrictions. An open wheel Fomula Libre with specified fuel type,and fuel load, specified downforce and saftey regulations including a regulated maximum cornering G limit within a safe margin, a totally open series, any size,type or engine configuration, any kind of aero, suspension or tire, Kers, Hers or whatever energy management system that produces the race winner.

Sweet, throw in AWD, and I think that you are right in line with the F1 Prototype series that I had started this thread about.

Chris

[CMSMJ1]

The F1 we do have currently is certainly crippled by the regulations enforced by the FIA. It may be that there is a point for the F1 ruling body to be a standalone sporting body rather than an addition to a large non sporting body such as the FIA. FOCA might make a better run of it and I was certainly disappointed when the GPWC option was euthanised by the manufacturers.

I also feel that F1 is by definition and popular consent the number 1 racing series and to try to produce another series, siamesed and run by effectively the same teams, would not be the synergistic racing weekend you crave.

The TV footage would not accomadate the 2 series
The teams would not split resource
the FIA would not allow the spending of money twice over
one series has 102 years of history, one would be seen as a usurper.
Why would they not change F1 if it looked like it was going to be taken over by the new F1.5?
etc..could bore you with it but I am not going to.

It really is a non starter mate..so can we look to improve what we have got, rather than trying to create the cloned, evil twin?

I would like to see an American racing series that showed some cutting edge technology but the money is not there. Champcars were brilliant to watch and it was a great series, sadly missed. However, it was not F1 and so was not freely available for everyone to watch.

Guys/Ladies - sorry for rambling but this thread is almost nonsensical and needs putting to bed.

Lets have a look at what we can change instead..

[Conceptual]

The F1 we do have currently is certainly crippled by the regulations enforced by the FIA. It may be that there is a point for the F1 ruling body to be a standalone sporting body rather than an addition to a large non sporting body such as the FIA. FOCA might make a better run of it and I was certainly disappointed when the GPWC option was euthanised by the manufacturers.

I also feel that F1 is by definition and popular consent the number 1 racing series and to try to produce another series, siamesed and run by effectively the same teams, would not be the synergistic racing weekend you crave.

The TV footage would not accomadate the 2 series
The teams would not split resource
the FIA would not allow the spending of money twice over
one series has 102 years of history, one would be seen as a usurper.
Why would they not change F1 if it looked like it was going to be taken over by the new F1.5?
etc..could bore you with it but I am not going to.

It really is a non starter mate..so can we look to improve what we have got, rather than trying to create the cloned, evil twin?

I would like to see an American racing series that showed some cutting edge technology but the money is not there. Champcars were brilliant to watch and it was a great series, sadly missed. However, it was not F1 and so was not freely available for everyone to watch.

Guys/Ladies - sorry for rambling but this thread is almost nonsensical and needs putting to bed.

Lets have a look at what we can change instead..

I see alot of speculation posted as fact, and looking at what we can change instead rather reduces all conversation about F1 to zero.

Maybe I'd be better off just by starting the initiative to expose the people that I know to the sport instead of asking questions on this message board. It seems that F1 really is a decent series, as long as you don't follow it too closely.

Maybe F1 just isnt what I'm looking for. Hell, I'm still looking for all of the wonderful things that my history books taught me in school as well.

Desire is the ammunition that is focused by determination, fired my motivation, and rifled by commitment.

Maybe I need to find a new target to shoot at.

Chris

[CMSMJ1]

Chris - what do you want?

Sounds like you want Wipeout 2097 sometimes.

Regarding assumptions stated as fact.

In the UK - F1 coverage is commonly cut to allow for a very lame soap called Coronation Street to run on time.
Driver interviews are often cut entirely or show only Lewis Hamiltons comments..just like after Spain.

The money for your F1.5 is not there. The largest consumer market on the planet does not even host a race and does not want to..so where are the new fans going to come from for a series the casual viewer could not distinguish from F1?

We are bothered as we follow F1 seriously. I have watched F1 since 1985 and have missed 7 or 8 races in that time when they were shown live. I also get the Speedtv footage for the mondays after a race and watch that too. I am not a casual fan by any stretch, nor am I a zealout. I love motor racing. I watch everything I can from local races near me, national races on TV for ford fiestas/mins whatever. I ride 10 trackdays a year on my motorbike and am commited to learning how it works and how to go faster and also how the setup of my bike can influence my laptimes. If you asked anyone that knew me what I know about..it would be motor racing.

In short - I am the kind of fan that would look at a contrived series like f1.5 and think it was rubbish.

We do not have an impossible problem to solve with F1 as it is. We need to recover a bit of the pasion back from the corporate suits and make it a racing series. Overwhelming technology is good and I agree that some of the restrictions we have do not make sense - especially AWD (opposed to 4wd) and the use of forced induction. We could have 1 litre motors knocking out 750bhp easily and all sorts of ideas to ensure extra efficiency..but that would not be F1. We need the best drivers using the best cars to the best of their ability.

Your ideas might be better suited at the GT classes rather than prototype classes. Make the technology relevant to road cars and there becomes a point that it makes sense to invest in it.

[Belatti]

Chris, hope you dont think I was being deliberately rude. I WAS rude with a reason: it annoys me a little that you seem to be trying to find a hair in an egg. You sound like a guy who doesn´t like F1. If you want to change so many things thats because you dont like it.

I know you dont care bout my opinion because you already said so, but here it is, AGAIN:

F1 is fast and good. All it needs is to shift some grip, from aero to mechanical. Its not necesary to develop "road relevant electronic driving aids", the driver has to control 100% of the car. Maybe loose a bit engine regs (configuration). Thats all!

[Conceptual]

Chris, hope you dont think I was being deliberately rude. I WAS rude with a reason: it annoys me a little that you seem to be trying to find a hair in an egg. You sound like a guy who doesn´t like F1. If you want to change so many things thats because you dont like it.

I know you dont care bout my opinion because you already said so, but here it is, AGAIN:

F1 is fast and good. All it needs is to shift some grip, from aero to mechanical. Its not necesary to develop "road relevant electronic driving aids", the driver has to control 100% of the car. Maybe loose a bit engine regs (configuration). Thats all!

Whatever man,

Maybe just adding a "Player Killer" aspect to F1 would increase overtaking. If you are about to be lapped (blue flagged), and the leader gets past you, then you get black flagged.

That would bunch up the field, allow for overtaking, as well as putting the drivers in a position to end another drivers race without putting him into the wall.



Chris

[Belatti]

Chris, in the world of "computing" there are F1 sim racing games, like this:



and then there are arcade games, like this



You, my friend, are the kind of guy who would pick the second game to play with...

[CMSMJ1]

I like your style Belatti... but surely the two picture above are not Sims...




Now that is a Sim =D>


@ Chris - don't get hacked off man, it was a case of having to tell you your ideas for the current F1 are not sensible. You seem thick skinned enough to mull over the digs and jibes and come back with a more clever solution

[tarzoon]

F1 is fast and good. All it needs is to shift some grip, from aero to mechanical. Its not necesary to develop "road relevant electronic driving aids", the driver has to control 100% of the car. Maybe loose a bit engine regs (configuration). Thats all!

Agree. Too many wings are the way that teams tried to sort out the problem of grooved tires. So it's back again to slicks and fewer wings.

The other thing that's a bit wrong with F1 is overtaking. Even if the cars are highly unstable when overtaking, I don't really remember any really serious accident. Sometimes I wonder if these are team commands to keep the risk controlled.

[Belatti]

Wow, now that I take a closer look, that McLaren has a BMW steering wheel

CMSMJ1, is that Grand Prix Legends?

[CMSMJ1]

Wow, now that I take a closer look, that McLaren has a BMW steering wheel

CMSMJ1, is that Grand Prix Legends?

/OT - sorry - Yes, it is the 1969 version of the Grnad Prix Legends sim.The best racing sim by far in whichever "mod" you use. Personally I cannot leave the 1967 cars although we now have 1965,1966,1967,1969 and 1972 Indycars with severla 50's mods in development. /OT

Why does that McLaren hae a BW wheel? very strange!

[Conceptual]

Personally, I play alot of the F1 2005 mod in rFactor, but I moonlight in the 2007 season as well.

Sim racing may just be a vision for the future.

Its the safest racing possible, and you can do pretty much anything that you want.

Maybe I should start working on a Mod that is what I would like to watch. I'm sure that if I threw up $5k or so as a tournament purse, that people would show up to race.

Actually, the more that I think about it, the more I think that I am going to invest some time into it...

Chris

[Belatti]

Maybe I should start working on a Mod that is what I would like to watch. I'm sure that if I threw up $5k or so as a tournament purse, that people would show up to race.

Actually, the more that I think about it, the more I think that I am going to invest some time into it...

Chris

Now, that´s a good idea!

My first racing sim was Microprose F1GP (maybe the first F1 racing sim)
The game is from 1991, in that year refueling was banned and you could choose between 4 tire hardness compounds. For example, with a soft compound, you would have to make 2 pitstops and with a harder one you could even stand out the whole race.

In the sim, you can see race endings are stunning, with quick cars on soft tires trying to overtake cars that where out all race long and are running over burned out tires.

Maybe you could model that in a modern sim and see what happens...

[modbaraban]

Wow, now that I take a closer look, that McLaren has a BMW steering wheel

AFAIK, GP4 allows only 1 steering wheel type for the whole grid.

Maybe I should start working on a Mod that is what I would like to watch. I'm sure that if I threw up $5k or so as a tournament purse, that people would show up to race.

Can you please clarify a point here. You initial idea was a creation of F1.5 series that is more free for tech. development, right? How do you intend to implement this in a racing sim? Some time ago I made this in F1C: youtube video. And it wasn't that difficult at all, besides later I've seen others beating this 'record'. My point is that just like every other sim rF has no connection between graphics and physics in most areas, so what you do to change the aero for instance is just tweak some numbers using a notepad. Thus it is much easier to make a car superfast than in real world. And the imposed limits can mostly control performance attributes rather than geometry (i.e. limit the downforce or drag of a wing, rather it's size, position and shape).

In the sim, you can see race endings are stunning, with quick cars on soft tires trying to overtake cars that where out all race long and are running over burned out tires.

Maybe you could model that in a modern sim and see what happens...

This is not only possible, but I guess it's already implemented in several sims and many mods

[Conceptual]

Wow, now that I take a closer look, that McLaren has a BMW steering wheel

AFAIK, GP4 allows only 1 steering wheel type for the whole grid.

Maybe I should start working on a Mod that is what I would like to watch. I'm sure that if I threw up $5k or so as a tournament purse, that people would show up to race.

Can you please clarify a point here. You initial idea was a creation of F1.5 series that is more free for tech. development, right? How do you intend to implement this in a racing sim? Some time ago I made this in F1C: youtube video. And it wasn't that difficult at all, besides later I've seen others beating this 'record'. My point is that just like every other sim rF has no connection between graphics and physics in most areas, so what you do to change the aero for instance is just tweak some numbers using a notepad. Thus it is much easier to make a car superfast than in real world. And the imposed limits can mostly control performance attributes rather than geometry (i.e. limit the downforce or drag of a wing, rather it's size, position and shape).

In the sim, you can see race endings are stunning, with quick cars on soft tires trying to overtake cars that where out all race long and are running over burned out tires.

Maybe you could model that in a modern sim and see what happens...

This is not only possible, but I guess it's already implemented in several sims and many mods

Mod,

Several people here have already pointed out that the feasibility of Formula 1.5 may have some credibility, but will never happen because I am not in charge of the series. Then I was told to only conversate on what we CAN change about F1, and when I thought about it, that conversation only has one topic, and is turning the channel to something else.

But, as I always do, I started thinking about a different way that I personally could change the way that I (and many others) could watch good racing, and that has led me to the Sim racing phemomena.

I would invite your comments as to what could be done to limit the amount of cheating in a series like this. If you have anything to contribute, or anyone else for that matter, PLEASE PM ME WITH YOUR IDEAS!

Thanks,

Chris