Do you know what would make F1 better?

[Chaparral]

Group 7 Can Am rules work for me - take out the second seat requirement and leave everything 'free form' as per the rest of the 'guidelines' and let Jim Hall & Gordon Murray loose heaven on a stick

[timbo]

Group 7 Can Am rules work for me - take out the second seat requirement and leave everything 'free form' as per the rest of the 'guidelines' and let Jim Hall & Gordon Murray loose heaven on a stick

Very, very true, I just only can't remember why that series lasted only 8 years


Well, that was sort of smart-ass joke

[G-Rock]

I think that they should put longitudinal grooves in the tires to improve passing like they did in 1998. Less grip in corners = lower exit speeds and more opportunities on the straightaway.

[Chaparral]

Group 7 Can Am rules work for me - take out the second seat requirement and leave everything 'free form' as per the rest of the 'guidelines' and let Jim Hall & Gordon Murray loose heaven on a stick

Very, very true, I just only can't remember why that series lasted only 8 years


Well, that was sort of smart-ass joke

same reason as F1 has gotten out of control Timbo - money - Porsche came in and spent a squillion dollars on the 917/10 and 917/30 to hijack the series - basically they outspent the competition.

[timbo]

Group 7 Can Am rules work for me - take out the second seat requirement and leave everything 'free form' as per the rest of the 'guidelines' and let Jim Hall & Gordon Murray loose heaven on a stick

Very, very true, I just only can't remember why that series lasted only 8 years


Well, that was sort of smart-ass joke

same reason as F1 has gotten out of control Timbo - money - Porsche came in and spent a squillion dollars on the 917/10 and 917/30 to hijack the series - basically they outspent the competition.

Right, but remember, F1 is still UNDER control. Last year we had one of the tightest grids EVER in the history of F1, every team (except SA) scored and 9 out of 10 (well, 11) were on podium.
With non-ristricted regulation it is much less possible as the biggest and fattest is much more likely to outspend anyone else, as performance return is much more linear.

[xpensive]

The demise of CanAm had a few more reasons than that actually. One was the "fuel-crisis", which made SCCA to do a PC knee-jerk and limit the fuel-load stopping the tubos, another was that McLaren considered it less fun when they didn't win every race. Finally, the loss of sponsor TurtleWax minimized the once so generous prize-money.

[Scania]

only limet bugget, no other. teams can use any engine or motor

[modbaraban]

only limet bugget, no other.

Do you really believe that's possible?

[Conceptual]

only limet bugget, no other.

Do you really believe that's possible?

Make the team show up with recipts?

[Metar]

And then, who polices stuff like "Dallara just got $10m and a scale F2010 from Marlboro, and sold it back to us, Ferrari, for a ninepence"?

[Chaparral]

Timbo wrote: Right, but remember, F1 is still UNDER control. Last year we had one of the tightest grids EVER in the history of F1, every team (except SA) scored and 9 out of 10 (well, 11) were on podium.
With non-ristricted regulation it is much less possible as the biggest and fattest is much more likely to outspend anyone else, as performance return is much more linear.

Well I dont agree its under control in the true sense - its a bit like the music industry which I know well - its self regulated and when a crunch comes they 'adjust' to present a prettier picture. Id be very surprised if the so-called cost cuts dont evaporate very quickly and teams continue to 'bend' the rules in the name of speed - its always been the same. If you got rid of the manufacturers yes you may have a chance of containing costs a great deal.

[Chaparral]

The demise of CanAm had a few more reasons than that actually. One was the "fuel-crisis", which made SCCA to do a PC knee-jerk and limit the fuel-load stopping the tubos, another was that McLaren considered it less fun when they didn't win every race. Finally, the loss of sponsor TurtleWax minimized the once so generous prize-money.

Well I dont know mate - but yes the 70's fuel crisis definitely pretty much killed it along with the Porsche hijack via the turbo flat 4 - they tried a revised series with full bodied F5000 cars but the 'spirit' of the original series had gone. Maybe instead they should have not allowed turbo's persae and left it naturally aspirated and free form design - whenever you tinker with rules and make allowances for parity it invariably screws up - the same with F1 - ok we have a parity series now with 'spec' power plants which Ive found appalling in the last decade - its conceived and manipulated for 'the show' - I dont care about 'the show' nor the closeness of the racing I want to see the best car designer and the best driver and I dont care if the spread between 1st and last is 10 laps - show me what you can do!

[xpensive]

Actually, Porche was not first with a turbo engine in CanAm, the McKee MkVII had a turbocharged big-block Oldsmobile V8 running already in 1967. Besides, the Offy-4 cyl turbo had been established in USAC for years. What Porche did was merely making the turbo-concept driveable on a road-circuit, but the throttle-lag of the flat-12 was still terrible.
Sometimes, I honestly wish that I was born twenty earlier.

[Chaparral]

Actually, Porche was not first with a turbo engine in CanAm, the McKee MkVII had a turbocharged big-block Oldsmobile V8 running already in 1967. Besides, the Offy-4 cyl turbo had been established in USAC for years. What Porche did was merely making the turbo-concept driveable on a road-circuit, but the throttle-lag of the flat-12 was still terrible.
Sometimes, I honestly wish that I was born twenty earlier.

No you dont wish you had been born earlier never do that - let me tell you at my age expensive and Im only 54

Im aware of the Mckee and the whole Can Am era - I have a friend who was married to Oscar Kovaleski who basically did every Can Am apart from 2 races in the original 4 year series driving Mclarens and we compare notes as weve done with Jan Mclaren, JIm Hall etc etc - the Mckee was a pig to drive btw. I think what the relevant point is - dont mess with a successful formulae keep it static but free form and keep manufacturers out thats all.

[xpensive]

Right, Oskar Kovaleski, the pole with or without a pole. Of course you have read Pete Lyons book? On the McKee turbo, Joe Leonard drove the thing on a few occations in late 1969 and was not very impressed to put it politely.

Regarding the manufacturers in F1, that's something I wish could be uninvented and confined to endurance racing, the way it used to be.