2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[chrisc90]

He is a better racer than Bottas for sue in attack and defense. Bottas i think has more qualifying pace, but that isn't enough to to be very good.
Hamilton I guess made mistakes that cost him to be ahead. But his detractors have more or less dissapeared after realizing he is faster than Russel in both Qualifying and race most of the time. I feel Russel will be faster in a year or less. It's inevitable.

Russell had more race pace all race than Hamilton today, up until Lewis put the soft tyre on vs George on the hard.

George spent the entire race, bar a early few laps, in free air. Lewis fought his way through traffic.

Surely Lewis had some free air in front of him at some point, and wasn’t constantly in traffic? I’d have to re-watch or find some data (if it’s there for gap to the car ahead) and see. From memory though he did have a lot of clear air when the others pitted and he climbed up to p6 ish? I didn’t follow him too closely though.

[Just_a_fan]

Key thing is that Lewis and George are treated equally. Unlike Max and Sergio. Is Max faster than Sergio? Yes. Should he be treated like the second coming of Christ? No. Is he? Yes.

Max is the only driver in the field that is given Number 1 status and given preferential treatment.

Is Max right up there with the best? Yes. Do his fans treat him as the second coming of Christ? Why?

Max is better than Sebastien and yet Red Bull treat him just like Sebastien. Why? He doesn't need it and his legacy will, ultimately, suffer for it.

[Just_a_fan]

Russell had more race pace all race than Hamilton today, up until Lewis put the soft tyre on vs George on the hard.

George spent the entire race, bar a early few laps, in free air. Lewis fought his way through traffic.

Surely Lewis had some free air in front of him at some point, and wasn’t constantly in traffic? I’d have to re-watch or find some data (if it’s there for gap to the car ahead) and see. From memory though he did have a lot of clear air when the others pitted and he climbed up to p6 ish? I didn’t follow him too closely though.

Whenever he had free air he closed the gap. And then took the place. His only "slow" period was early doors when around the very back markers, and that's understandable when you think about their record.

[Hammerfist]

Why are we comparing Lewis and George when they were never running the same compound at the same time? The only thing I'll say is that George couldn't keep up with Leclerc on the softs at the beginning of the race while Lewis matched Charles on the softs at the end of the race.

[chrisc90]

George spent the entire race, bar a early few laps, in free air. Lewis fought his way through traffic.

Surely Lewis had some free air in front of him at some point, and wasn’t constantly in traffic? I’d have to re-watch or find some data (if it’s there for gap to the car ahead) and see. From memory though he did have a lot of clear air when the others pitted and he climbed up to p6 ish? I didn’t follow him too closely though.

Whenever he had free air he closed the gap. And then took the place. His only "slow" period was early doors when around the very back markers, and that's understandable when you think about their record.

Absolutely. Watching the highlights it seemed a common 1.5 second (give or take) gap to the car in front. I’d class that as relatively clean air ahead and probably picking up a good tow in that space too. So I’d say, on a vast majority of laps, it would be fair to compare pace between them this time time round.

Lap 12…1.5seconds
Lap 13…1.7seconds
Lap 26… overtakes Alonso 5.5behind Norris
Around 35/36 Lewis pits and quickly clears 2 cars ahead in turn 2… 1 second to Danny ric
By lap 38 Lewis was past and 19.5 to the car in front.

Overtakes yes, gained a lot of places through the pits, But I wouldn’t say he was massively troubled with traffic.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Key thing is that Lewis and George are treated equally. Unlike Max and Sergio. Is Max faster than Sergio? Yes. Should he be treated like the second coming of Christ? No. Is he? Yes.

Max is the only driver in the field that is given Number 1 status and given preferential treatment.

Is Max right up there with the best? Yes. Do his fans treat him as the second coming of Christ? Why?

Max is better than Sebastien and yet Red Bull treat him just like Sebastien. Why? He doesn't need it and his legacy will, ultimately, suffer for it.

Bit double standards that. Don’t remember BOT being a clear no2?
Also what “preferential” treatment does he get. Could you be specific or is it just a feeling you’ve got?
Every team prioritises a driver that can win the championship for them. At the beginning of the season there was no hierarchy as PER was very much on a par. Then the designers obviously make the car faster, VER is able to make the most of it (presumably a pointier front end) but Perez just hasn’t been able to. They won’t develop a car for a driver. They make the car faster. A driver can give feedback but that’s about it!

No team mate has come close pace wise (except RIC, in the early years)


Lewis and George won’t be treated equally if one of them is in a championship race and the other isn’t. Saying that they would be is facetious and you know this.

But I’d be very interested in finding out specifically where the preferential treatment is.(proper examples and not conjecture)

Does RB management decisively act sooner on track then most other teams? I think so. Their decision making has been the sharpest of them all lately

[Just_a_fan]

Key thing is that Lewis and George are treated equally. Unlike Max and Sergio. Is Max faster than Sergio? Yes. Should he be treated like the second coming of Christ? No. Is he? Yes.

Max is the only driver in the field that is given Number 1 status and given preferential treatment.

Is Max right up there with the best? Yes. Do his fans treat him as the second coming of Christ? Why?

Max is better than Sebastien and yet Red Bull treat him just like Sebastien. Why? He doesn't need it and his legacy will, ultimately, suffer for it.

Bit double standards that. Don’t remember BOT being a clear no2?
Also what “preferential” treatment does he get. Could you be specific or is it just a feeling you’ve got?
Every team prioritises a driver that can win the championship for them. At the beginning of the season there was no hierarchy as PER was very much on a par. Then the designers obviously make the car faster, VER is able to make the most of it (presumably a pointier front end) but Perez just hasn’t been able to. They won’t develop a car for a driver. They make the car faster. A driver can give feedback but that’s about it!

No team mate has come close pace wise (except RIC, in the early years)


Lewis and George won’t be treated equally if one of them is in a championship race and the other isn’t. Saying that they would be is facetious and you know this.

But I’d be very interested in finding out specifically where the preferential treatment is.(proper examples and not conjecture)

Does RB management decisively act sooner on track then most other teams? I think so. Their decision making has been the sharpest of them all lately

Lewis / Bottas: Swap places, and then return the places. That's a straight up example of not being #1 and #2. That will never happen at Red Bull. Never.

As for Red Bull's team position: it was stated last season - they weren't looking for the best result, they were looking for a Max result. Horner stood there and said it. We haven't seen that since Michael was at Ferrari.

I don't blame them for doing it, but please let's not pretend that the elephant isn't in the room.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Key thing is that Lewis and George are treated equally. Unlike Max and Sergio. Is Max faster than Sergio? Yes. Should he be treated like the second coming of Christ? No. Is he? Yes.

Max is the only driver in the field that is given Number 1 status and given preferential treatment.

Is Max right up there with the best? Yes. Do his fans treat him as the second coming of Christ? Why?

Max is better than Sebastien and yet Red Bull treat him just like Sebastien. Why? He doesn't need it and his legacy will, ultimately, suffer for it.

Bit double standards that. Don’t remember BOT being a clear no2?
Also what “preferential” treatment does he get. Could you be specific or is it just a feeling you’ve got?
Every team prioritises a driver that can win the championship for them. At the beginning of the season there was no hierarchy as PER was very much on a par. Then the designers obviously make the car faster, VER is able to make the most of it (presumably a pointier front end) but Perez just hasn’t been able to. They won’t develop a car for a driver. They make the car faster. A driver can give feedback but that’s about it!

No team mate has come close pace wise (except RIC, in the early years)


Lewis and George won’t be treated equally if one of them is in a championship race and the other isn’t. Saying that they would be is facetious and you know this.

But I’d be very interested in finding out specifically where the preferential treatment is.(proper examples and not conjecture)

Does RB management decisively act sooner on track then most other teams? I think so. Their decision making has been the sharpest of them all lately

Lewis / Bottas: Swap places, and then return the places. That's a straight up example of not being #1 and #2. That will never happen at Red Bull. Never.

As for Red Bull's team position: it was stated last season - they weren't looking for the best result, they were looking for a Max result. Horner stood there and said it. We haven't seen that since Michael was at Ferrari.

I don't blame them for doing it, but please let's not pretend that the elephant isn't in the room.

As expected, nothing of substance there in your reply. Just your feelings. As for Bottas and his no2 role. Here is an article with Bottas actually talking about the team orders given to him
https://racingnews365.com/bottas-lettin ... gether/amp

Like I said, please stop the double standards. Teams do what they do to protect the championship and someone at some stage will play second fiddle. How early in the championship this is, varies by team and competition around them

[Just_a_fan]

Bit double standards that. Don’t remember BOT being a clear no2?
Also what “preferential” treatment does he get. Could you be specific or is it just a feeling you’ve got?
Every team prioritises a driver that can win the championship for them. At the beginning of the season there was no hierarchy as PER was very much on a par. Then the designers obviously make the car faster, VER is able to make the most of it (presumably a pointier front end) but Perez just hasn’t been able to. They won’t develop a car for a driver. They make the car faster. A driver can give feedback but that’s about it!

No team mate has come close pace wise (except RIC, in the early years)


Lewis and George won’t be treated equally if one of them is in a championship race and the other isn’t. Saying that they would be is facetious and you know this.

But I’d be very interested in finding out specifically where the preferential treatment is.(proper examples and not conjecture)

Does RB management decisively act sooner on track then most other teams? I think so. Their decision making has been the sharpest of them all lately

Lewis / Bottas: Swap places, and then return the places. That's a straight up example of not being #1 and #2. That will never happen at Red Bull. Never.

As for Red Bull's team position: it was stated last season - they weren't looking for the best result, they were looking for a Max result. Horner stood there and said it. We haven't seen that since Michael was at Ferrari.

I don't blame them for doing it, but please let's not pretend that the elephant isn't in the room.

As expected, nothing of substance there in your reply. Just your feelings. As for Bottas and his no2 role. Here is an article with Bottas actually talking about the team orders given to him
https://racingnews365.com/bottas-lettin ... gether/amp

Like I said, please stop the double standards. Teams do what they do to protect the championship and someone at some stage will play second fiddle. How early in the championship this is, varies by team and competition around them

No substance? Did Lewis give the place back to Valterri? Yes or no? It's a fact so easy to answer.

Last season, Horner stated that their sole aim was to get Max the title. Another fact.

As I said, I don't blame them for doing it. It worked with Seb and it worked for Ferrari with Micheal.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Lewis / Bottas: Swap places, and then return the places. That's a straight up example of not being #1 and #2. That will never happen at Red Bull. Never.

As for Red Bull's team position: it was stated last season - they weren't looking for the best result, they were looking for a Max result. Horner stood there and said it. We haven't seen that since Michael was at Ferrari.

I don't blame them for doing it, but please let's not pretend that the elephant isn't in the room.

As expected, nothing of substance there in your reply. Just your feelings. As for Bottas and his no2 role. Here is an article with Bottas actually talking about the team orders given to him
https://racingnews365.com/bottas-lettin ... gether/amp

Like I said, please stop the double standards. Teams do what they do to protect the championship and someone at some stage will play second fiddle. How early in the championship this is, varies by team and competition around them

No substance? Did Lewis give the place back to Valterri? Yes or no?

No. He let HAM through in Russia 2018.

Then last year this was Toto saying that team orders may come into play again
https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... rint-trial

[101FlyingDutchman]

Team orders are a reality of F1. To pretend that Merc wouldn’t do it is trying to rewrite history and denying reality

[Juzh]

At the beginning of the season there was no hierarchy as PER was very much on a par. Then the designers obviously make the car faster, VER is able to make the most of it (presumably a pointier front end) but Perez just hasn’t been able to. They won’t develop a car for a driver. They make the car faster. A driver can give feedback but that’s about it!

Early season RB18 was an absolute boat, wouldn't turn into corners if it's life depended on it. I can't remember last time seeing a car with so much steering lock going straight time and time again. Obviously this had to be remedied in various ways. If RB would be stupid and put their eggs in Perez' basket and gone down the understeer road they'd be nowhere at this stage. A total dead end. Fortunately RB isn't stupid and knows how to solve those problems pragmatically. Drivers simply have to adapt to it.

[Just_a_fan]

As expected, nothing of substance there in your reply. Just your feelings. As for Bottas and his no2 role. Here is an article with Bottas actually talking about the team orders given to him
https://racingnews365.com/bottas-lettin ... gether/amp

Like I said, please stop the double standards. Teams do what they do to protect the championship and someone at some stage will play second fiddle. How early in the championship this is, varies by team and competition around them

No substance? Did Lewis give the place back to Valterri? Yes or no?

No. He let HAM through in Russia 2018.

Then last year this was Toto saying that team orders may come into play again
https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... rint-trial

And Hungary? Or didn't that happen.

[Just_a_fan]

Team orders are a reality of F1. To pretend that Merc wouldn’t do it is trying to rewrite history and denying reality

They do it, yes , but to ensure the best team result.

Multi 21.

[101FlyingDutchman]

No substance? Did Lewis give the place back to Valterri? Yes or no?

No. He let HAM through in Russia 2018.

Then last year this was Toto saying that team orders may come into play again
https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... rint-trial

And Hungary? Or didn't that happen.

Not sure what you’re trying to prove? I’m merely responding to your statements that are demonstrably false. I’m well aware that the Red Bull pit wall is “probably” more ruthless earlier on in a season than perhaps other teams. But you have to consider that initially FER was very much on the front foot points wise and on track performance wise. So I understand their decisive actions.

All I’m saying is that Merc or Ferrari would do the same thing. And the statements you made were just false wrt HAM and BOT. And I provided the evidence for you.

I’m no fan of team orders. They’re ugly but part of F1 up and down the pitlane.