2025 Miami Grand Prix - Miami USA, May 02-04

[kurtj]

So now F1 is even more of a borefest, because you will only ever be able to overtake on the inside, everywhere. No more unconventional, creative overtakes around the outside, etc, you will just be pushed off the track. I am also predicting right now some crashes happening because everyone now wants to go to the inside, even the lead car, someone will inevitably crash because of this.

Sheer idiocy.

But that's largely always been the case in F1, that's how racing has always been, it's just been clarified more recently with more stringent rules.

Whether you agree with that type of racing or not is a different matter. Personally, I think F1 should adopt an approach where more racing room is given. For example, if you have any part of your car alongside, whether on the outside or inside, you have to be given a car's width of room. This would lead to much better side-by-side battling.

That was always how the rule was understood, until the nonsense of "who gets to apex first" came out. Mostly "shove the other car off" became prominent from 2014 when Lewis kept pulling that move on Nico and finally Nico getting frustrated and not backing off in Spa. That trend was taken to a different level by Max. He would cross the white line in his attempt to shove off the other car. Until Mexico last year when Stewards said enough is enough.

Like you said, the rule should be simple. If any part of the chasing car is alongside, the car ahead should give a car's width in the corner ahead, regardless of the apex crap. Otherwise, good racing would be dead. Failing which, it should be a dead 10 second penalty and second offence should be a drive through. Equally, dive bomb moves should be punished where the chasing car tries to come alongside while locking wheels.

[michl420]

So now F1 is even more of a borefest, because you will only ever be able to overtake on the inside, everywhere. No more unconventional, creative overtakes around the outside, etc, you will just be pushed off the track. I am also predicting right now some crashes happening because everyone now wants to go to the inside, even the lead car, someone will inevitably crash because of this.

Sheer idiocy.

But that's largely always been the case in F1, that's how racing has always been, it's just been clarified more recently with more stringent rules.

Whether you agree with that type of racing or not is a different matter. Personally, I think F1 should adopt an approach where more racing room is given. For example, if you have any part of your car alongside, whether on the outside or inside, you have to be given a car's width of room. This would lead to much better side-by-side battling.

Agree, especially about the battling.
I don`t know why the rule " outside car must have room" is not applyed for the start situation btw NOR/VES?

[Sevach]

Alonso still on zero points. He's having a horrible season. Stroll somehow on 14 points and in 10th.

Stroll got a couple of lucky results, he didn't suddenly get good nearly a decade in, he is still terrible.

But that spin... maybe father time finally caught up to Fernando.

[basti313]

So now F1 is even more of a borefest, because you will only ever be able to overtake on the inside, everywhere. No more unconventional, creative overtakes around the outside, etc, you will just be pushed off the track. I am also predicting right now some crashes happening because everyone now wants to go to the inside, even the lead car, someone will inevitably crash because of this.

Sheer idiocy.

But that's largely always been the case in F1, that's how racing has always been, it's just been clarified more recently with more stringent rules.

Whether you agree with that type of racing or not is a different matter. Personally, I think F1 should adopt an approach where more racing room is given. For example, if you have any part of your car alongside, whether on the outside or inside, you have to be given a car's width of room. This would lead to much better side-by-side battling.

Agree, especially about the battling.
I don`t know why the rule " outside car must have room" is not applyed for the start situation btw NOR/VES?

The whole "outside (or inside!) car must have room" was killed by the "rules of engagement" that Niki Lauda and Toto were establishing when Mercedes vs. Mercedes was the only interesting battle in F1. Just because it was one of the signature moves of one of their drivers.
This was the start of quite arbitrary rules on who owns the corner. Before that it was a clear "All the time you have to leave a space!" like in most other racing series. Funny thing is that the same Toto this weekend complained about his own rule of being allowed to run someone off.
I am not sure who is the weird mind behind the apex clause to be honest...

[ringo]

Alonso still on zero points. He's having a horrible season. Stroll somehow on 14 points and in 10th.

Stroll got a couple of lucky results, he didn't suddenly get good nearly a decade in, he is still terrible.

But that spin... maybe father time finally caught up to Fernando.

He should go to redbull and be Max's tail gunner. He would have much better results and win again.
Aston would have to make a quantum leap with newey to change everything in 2026. Because now even Sauber under Binotto is looking respectable.

[kurtj]

Alonso still on zero points. He's having a horrible season. Stroll somehow on 14 points and in 10th.

Stroll got a couple of lucky results, he didn't suddenly get good nearly a decade in, he is still terrible.

But that spin... maybe father time finally caught up to Fernando.

He should go to redbull and be Max's tail gunner. He would have much better results and win again.
Aston would have to make a quantum leap with newey to change everything in 2026. Because now even Sauber under Binotto is looking respectable.

Unfortunately, Alonso doesn't like cars that are on the nose. But he might hustle them to get some results, but in other teams. But these Red Bull cars built so much to the ultra unique liking of Max, doesn't give a chance to even peak Alonso to perform close to Max. No chance for the grandpa Alonso. There is a reason why no top driver wants to go to Red Bull, for as long as Max is there.

[DChemTech]

Alonso still on zero points. He's having a horrible season. Stroll somehow on 14 points and in 10th.

Stroll got a couple of lucky results, he didn't suddenly get good nearly a decade in, he is still terrible.

But that spin... maybe father time finally caught up to Fernando.

He should go to redbull and be Max's tail gunner. He would have much better results and win again.
Aston would have to make a quantum leap with newey to change everything in 2026. Because now even Sauber under Binotto is looking respectable.

I am amused by people using 'quantum' leap to indicate a huge step. While the only thing 'quantum' indicates is a discrete step. And in the way it is actually used in physics, a very, very tiny discrete step.

[bluechris]

In my eyes with the current rules, you just protect your inside line and you are ok.

[FittingMechanics]

In my eyes with the current rules, you just protect your inside line and you are ok.

Yeah. Looking at the guidelines, if you are defending on the inside the attacker needs to have his front axle ahead of your front axle at the apex in order to be allowed room on the outside. This means that the defender can just drive like the attacker on the outside doesn't exist. By doing so you maximize the chance of being level at apex and thus not needing to give the space to the attacker.

On the other hand, if you defend the outside then you are in a much worse position. Attacking car needs to have their front wheel around your mirror before and at the apex, and if it has satisfied that rule then they can force you off track.

[ringo]

Stroll got a couple of lucky results, he didn't suddenly get good nearly a decade in, he is still terrible.

But that spin... maybe father time finally caught up to Fernando.

He should go to redbull and be Max's tail gunner. He would have much better results and win again.
Aston would have to make a quantum leap with newey to change everything in 2026. Because now even Sauber under Binotto is looking respectable.

I am amused by people using 'quantum' leap to indicate a huge step. While the only thing 'quantum' indicates is a discrete step. And in the way it is actually used in physics, a very, very tiny discrete step.

Funny you spotted that. I thought about the irony of it while typing it. It's a cliche statement from the past.
I guess it's a very big step considering the size of the particles involved.

[ringo]

In my eyes with the current rules, you just protect your inside line and you are ok.

Yeah. Looking at the guidelines, if you are defending on the inside the attacker needs to have his front axle ahead of your front axle at the apex in order to be allowed room on the outside. This means that the defender can just drive like the attacker on the outside doesn't exist. By doing so you maximize the chance of being level at apex and thus not needing to give the space to the attacker.

On the other hand, if you defend the outside then you are in a much worse position. Attacking car needs to have their front wheel around your mirror before and at the apex, and if it has satisfied that rule then they can force you off track.

From how I see it, If you are going to attack on the outside, make sure you can swing around the defender regardless of what he does. I do not like the idea of placing a car on the outside and expecting to be left a car's width at the mercy of the defender. Not saying the defender can push the attacker off without penalty, just saying that the attacker should bide his time until he knows he can overtake on the outside in a flash.
Hamilton went side by side with the HAAS, but it was done by him being able to place the car in the middle of the first corner rather quickly.

[Seanspeed]

So now F1 is even more of a borefest, because you will only ever be able to overtake on the inside, everywhere. No more unconventional, creative overtakes around the outside, etc, you will just be pushed off the track. I am also predicting right now some crashes happening because everyone now wants to go to the inside, even the lead car, someone will inevitably crash because of this.

Sheer idiocy.

But that's largely always been the case in F1, that's how racing has always been, it's just been clarified more recently with more stringent rules.

Whether you agree with that type of racing or not is a different matter. Personally, I think F1 should adopt an approach where more racing room is given. For example, if you have any part of your car alongside, whether on the outside or inside, you have to be given a car's width of room. This would lead to much better side-by-side battling.

It's never been this bad. It's gotten and is getting ever worse, especially now that running others off-track is legalized in basically any case where the overtaking car wasn't already 100% certainly gonna make the move, which is absolute horse poop.

As you say, the most obvious and reasonable situation is to force them to always require to give a car alongside room. It seems like it's the drivers themselves who dont want this because they seem to ENJOY being able to bully others from being able to overtake them, even though they literally ALL whine about it when they're on the receiving end. Stop listening to the drivers, they are only self-interested here.

[Matt-A]

Pile position should be moved to the side of each race track so they always have the most advantageous position on the inside or outside of turn 1 and 2 if the new rule is staying.

[zeph]

Looking back at it, it seems like Oscar dummied Max into that overtake. He kept his car on the outside and made it look like he was going on the outside which made Max to do his usual thing of going deep into the corner to run the car on the outside, out of the track, but Oscar slammed the brake and let Max go deep and then pulled the overtake. Max was never trying to make the corner properly. It was obvious. That was really sharp racing by Oscar. Other drivers would have tried to keep the momentum on the outside and try and overtake, but then Max would do the usual thing of running them out of track. Nice trick there by Oscar.

That is how it appeared to me as well. He was just biding his time, putting the pressure on, and when he struck he did it without hesitation.

Norris seemed much more eager and a bit less controlled.

[zeph]

on a different note.. Alonso still on zero points. He's having a horrible season. Stroll somehow on 14 points and in 10th.

This hurts. He deserves better than that.