2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[SiLo]

2006 was a well earned championship, Alonso and Schumacher both had very strong cars and could fight for the win.

1998 and 1999 both well earned championships.

Hell even 2012 were well earned.

I take nothing away from Hamilton and his achievements, he's beaten* every team mate he's raced against. He's beaten his direct competitors so far, but he's never faced someone of his same caliber in a similar caliber car, and he will this season, which is what makes it so interesting. If this offends the Mercedes group think, so be it.

We all know that 2016, Rosberg capitalized on every single instance he could, and that was the only reason he beat Hamilton, it was just a matter of making fewer mistakes because Rosberg knows he couldn't beat him on race pace.

Pretty hard for one of the greatest drivers the sport has ever seen to face people of a similar calibre. It was the same for Schumacher, except he had a team that didn't bother offering both drivers similar status until it was clear to favour one over the other.

Personally, that belief is incredibly short sighted and is basically saying that if you dominate and beat everyone easily it's earned less than having someone else close for an entire season. The best of the best all have seasons where they destroyed everyone, simply because they were so good and that should absolutely not be held against them in a negative way.

Not only is it hard for him to find racers of similar caliber, but also hard to find racers with cars of similar caliber making it all the more lopsided. All I'm saying is, there are drivers on his level in F1 right now, he's not peerless, nor will he be forever. And now that driver has a similar caliber car, the two elements align and it will test him. I'm not saying Hamilton is bad, far from it, it's a titanic duel and you should look forward to it! It's something you'll only get to see once in your lifetime.

You make it sound like Hamilton has something to prove still, which is absolutely not the case. I get you what are trying to say I just think that of anyone currently on the grid, he's the one that has done the most, for the longest and the most consistently.

Max in comparison looks very exciting and has driven well, but beyond that has it all to do and undoubtedly has all the pressure as well.

[godlameroso]

The thing is Verstappen proves himself in everything he touches, he's fast in anything. Imagine one of those sim racing aliens but in real life, although he's also a sim racing alien driver.

Hamilton is probably like this as well, that's what makes this so interesting.

Hamilton grew up playing gran turismo while he did karting, the two went hand in hand, Verstappen as well. Their brains are wired differently than people who only grow up driving cars, or only driving sims. Their critical formative years were spent in both simulation and real life, bridging the gap between the two.

At age 8 one's imagination begins to develop, it is a natural biological event that happens in all humans. This is when Hamilton and Verstappen started karting, and I imagine soon after began playing racing video games.

Think about what happens to your body, to your brain as you merge the two, right when your brain has a huge neurogenesis and your "imagination" begins to develop? What better way to develop that imagination than to marry two similar but different concepts together?

Look at how this has benefitted their development, Hamilton's interests outside of racing are likely due to the experience he has marrying two similar but different concepts.

To be honest it's why I see so much potential in Russell and Norris, both grew up the same way.

[El Scorchio]

This feels like a conversation for a different thread. Either pecking order or Hamilton vs Verstappen. It's moved away from being a Mercedes team conversation and is likely to end up in an argument.

I don't think this line of discussion would be taken too kindly on the Red Bull team thread.

[Just_a_fan]

This feels like a conversation for a different thread. Either pecking order or Hamilton vs Verstappen. It's moved away from being a Mercedes team conversation and is likely to end up in an argument.

I don't think this line of discussion would be taken too kindly on the Red Bull team thread.

I agree, which is why I upvoted you to cancel the childish downvote you received.

Whilst you're not a moderator - as correctly mentioned by your downvoter - we all have a responsibility to not actively cause threads to drift off topic.

[El Scorchio]

This feels like a conversation for a different thread. Either pecking order or Hamilton vs Verstappen. It's moved away from being a Mercedes team conversation and is likely to end up in an argument.

I don't think this line of discussion would be taken too kindly on the Red Bull team thread.

I agree, which is why I upvoted you to cancel the childish downvote you received.

Whilst you're not a moderator - as correctly mentioned by your downvoter - we all have a responsibility to not actively cause threads to drift off topic.

Cheers! I didn't see the downvote stuff, and obviously it's true I'm not a mod. Maybe wrongly I said something when I should have stayed silent and I didn't mean to offend anyone, but I could see a massive off topic argument brewing here.

[SiLo]

Happy for mods to move the posts to a relevant thread.

Regarding the team - what do we think that whilst Mercedes shifted their development of the W12 early, do you think they also went through practices early in prep for the new budget limits and CFD limits as well? I was wondering if they may have also been internally testing ahead of schedule to figure out how to maximise their output now whilst they have the manpower to spend time and effort on it.

[PlatinumZealot]

I'm interested in seeing which version of Bottas races in 2021. I'd like to hope he takes a lesson from Rosberg and elbows Hamilton around a bit more.

He won't have that luxury to fight HAM one on one because of the fast RedBulls. I can see him playing a forced number 2 after the fifth race if we don't have a Rocket Ship by then.

[PlatinumZealot]

The Merc trace had all the looks of someone trying really hard not to be fast.

One of two things is true - either Mercedes have built a diva and they're going to struggle this year, or they've built a total weapon and were sandbagging like crazy. Why sandbag?

I find it hard to believe what you are stating if Toto's statement is honest (which I think it is).

Toto Wolff: "For this year they had reduced the aerodynamics of the floor a lot and that's a bigger cut especially for teams like us (low rake) than for cars with a high rake. And you could see in testing that we fell behind a bit more than the others."

Well, his own technical staff disagrees with him on the low rake vs high rake point.

No to mention what we sall in testing was a car that was either not balance properly, couldn't get the softer tires working, or had some minor aerodynamic instability.

It could easily be all of the above and some minor tweaks has it worked out by this weekend.

The Mercedes race pace was measered the fastest by F1 analytics and Bottas was also praising how well his last day went. I would say good signs that the base car is pretty good. Those tweaks may not put them on pole, but the track is good overtaking.

[NathanOlder]

2008 against lesser drivers in competitive cars.

Ferrari won the manufacturer's title with Massa taking 6 victories to Hamilton's 5. Kimi was the reigning champion in the other Ferrari although only taking 2 victories. It went down to the last corner of the last race. Not sure how much more competition a guy has to win against for it to be considered a worthwhile title.

Exactly. Using godlameroso's criteria, most champions would be unproven given either (i) "perceived" lack of competition (if rival drivers are deemed inferior for whatever reason, or if the champion's machinery is deemed superior), or (ii) disregarding intra-team rivalry.

First thing I thought of was, 'well Schumacher didn't earn any of his of this is what you need to do to earn a title'

94-95 = lesser drivers.
00-04 = lesser teams.

lol

[Just_a_fan]

Ferrari won the manufacturer's title with Massa taking 6 victories to Hamilton's 5. Kimi was the reigning champion in the other Ferrari although only taking 2 victories. It went down to the last corner of the last race. Not sure how much more competition a guy has to win against for it to be considered a worthwhile title.

Exactly. Using godlameroso's criteria, most champions would be unproven given either (i) "perceived" lack of competition (if rival drivers are deemed inferior for whatever reason, or if the champion's machinery is deemed superior), or (ii) disregarding intra-team rivalry.

First thing I thought of was, 'well Schumacher didn't earn any of his of this is what you need to do to earn a title'

94-95 = lesser drivers.
00-04 = lesser teams.

lol

Quite so.

[DarthPlagueisTheVise]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... irst-time/
Brilliant article

[djones]

Given there is a long time between the 1st and 2nd race. And given in interviews Mercedes seemed worried about people having time to copy them....

I wonder if they are planning on sacrificing results in the first race, then bringing a big update at the second.

[NathanOlder]

Given there is a long time between the 1st and 2nd race. And given in interviews Mercedes seemed worried about people having time to copy them....

I wonder if they are planning on sacrificing results in the first race, then bringing a big update at the second.

I'm thinking its something that requires tokens, so once the cars roll out in FP1 on Friday, the rival teams tokens have been spent. At that point Merc can show thier token spend knowing no one can copy their idea all year long.

[Sieper]

Like last year with DAS. The advantage was locked in as it was outlawed for this year making it a zero return on investment for anybody else.

[Jolle]

Like last year with DAS. The advantage was locked in as it was outlawed for this year making it a zero return on investment for anybody else.

Last years DAS was an odd one. Easy to copy and outside the spending limits on CFD or windtunnel. If RedBull or Ferrari were closer and RedBull hadn’t just updated their steering rack like they did last year (the 2019 rack would be easy), they would of copied it.