2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Wouter]

The #F1 2023 season kicks off this weekend in Bahrain .

HRC is supporting Red Bull Powertrains, which is supplying power units to Oracle Red Bull Racing
and Scuderia AlphaTauri again this season.

[napoleon1981]

IDeveloping the '23 car if it's already dominant makes no sense. You'd spend the time and effort on the '24 car to assure your dominance for next year.

It does make sense to upgrade with stability in the rules. It is important to validate upgrades on track and further evolve from there. You can't just simply keep evolving and finding performance without ever running the intermediate development points on the car.

If you are planning on a complete departure of the concept I agree, but there has been no indication RB is planning on doing so.

[AR3-GP]

I think maybe people (including myself) have just forgotten what the long game looks like. Fast cars rarely ever take revolutionary concept changes from year to year when regulations are stable. It didn't happen from 2011-2014 or from 2014-2020 (only forced adaptation due to regulation change). RB and Mercedes simply kept massaging their original designs with the exception of smaller regulation changes like the 2017 change, and the 2019 change.

[Henk_v]

IDeveloping the '23 car if it's already dominant makes no sense. You'd spend the time and effort on the '24 car to assure your dominance for next year.

It does make sense to upgrade with stability in the rules. It is important to validate upgrades on track and further evolve from there. You can't just simply keep evolving and finding performance without ever running the intermediate development points on the car.

If you are planning on a complete departure of the concept I agree, but there has been no indication RB is planning on doing so.

There will always be things where you know you can refine, but that takes a lot of time and effort. If you know you don't need to, you can spend time on the harder stuff. Meanwhile let the refinements on for instance wings pan out through the field. See where the front wings are heading and then just take the direction you know is succesful. Why push the stone uphill?

For the mirror; I'm not even sure wether they'd need any substantial WT or CFD for a basic design with less drag. They either bolt on something vanilla, or they'll parade another intricate design to be copied.

[napoleon1981]

IDeveloping the '23 car if it's already dominant makes no sense. You'd spend the time and effort on the '24 car to assure your dominance for next year.

It does make sense to upgrade with stability in the rules. It is important to validate upgrades on track and further evolve from there. You can't just simply keep evolving and finding performance without ever running the intermediate development points on the car.

If you are planning on a complete departure of the concept I agree, but there has been no indication RB is planning on doing so.

Meanwhile let the refinements on for instance wings pan out through the field. See where the front wings are heading and then just take the direction you know is succesful. Why push the stone uphill?

Are you saying let other teams do development work and than copy it? Thats the Aston Martin approach and is not terribly succesful (yes i know they had a good test this year). RB will need to stay on the cutting edge and be the first to bolt improvements on the car and have others follow suit.

The RB approach seems to be stick with a working concept and keep improving it with many small upgrades. In my mind they need to stick with that philosophy. There have been alot of examples in the past where big upgrade packages have actually backfired, because they didnt work as expected.

[AR3-GP]

[Henk_v]

It does make sense to upgrade with stability in the rules. It is important to validate upgrades on track and further evolve from there. You can't just simply keep evolving and finding performance without ever running the intermediate development points on the car.

If you are planning on a complete departure of the concept I agree, but there has been no indication RB is planning on doing so.

Meanwhile let the refinements on for instance wings pan out through the field. See where the front wings are heading and then just take the direction you know is succesful. Why push the stone uphill?

Are you saying let other teams do development work and than copy it? Thats the Aston Martin approach and is not terribly succesful (yes i know they had a good test this year). RB will need to stay on the cutting edge and be the first to bolt improvements on the car and have others follow suit.

The RB approach seems to be stick with a working concept and keep improving it with many small upgrades. In my mind they need to stick with that philosophy. There have been alot of examples in the past where big upgrade packages have actually backfired, because they didnt work as expected.

No. I don't say copy it. Just see what avenue's of development are bringing success and then choose the right one. But, RB is not some holy cow. They copied many stuff and they've been copied. That's how it works. (think t-tray wing)

Yes, RB IS the cutting edge, I'm just saying that a healthy lead can make them decide to take a second row seat in some area's to be far more effective in development.

Let's take the slot gap seperators and disconnected endplates on the FW. If I were RB, I'd just see and wait if it brings anyone something really and if it is going to be the norm/worth the effort. There's little room for original thought here. MB had it, FER has it and several other teams run funky endplate transitions. Why start developing it now if the outcome is uncertain. Remember MB allready had front downforce mysteries. Any development is a risk. If MB starts losing endplates on kerbs, or gets instability in gusts, that's valuable input for your own design and saves you the learning curve. If you have a development lead, you can just take some time to see how things pan out before jumping into your own developments. At least for the visible ones. If the wings of RB work fine and there is room for improvement on the floor, they'd be far better off focussing on the floor. As long as they keep the car with the rollhoop pointing up (and they fired the 2 guys who paraded the floor in front of a camera in '22), they can extend their lead in private.

[organic]

RB already have their own funky endplate transition tbf. It's hard to see though

Not as extreme as merc's current design but as you say if the advantage is comfortable they can take a back seat on the fw development and see what avenues bear fruit for other teams before investing resources

[organic]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... /10437292/

"I'd say that there are very few drivers that like understeer," he said. "I think there's not many drivers that like it.

"And so, from my point of view, Max is able to cope with a less stable rear end than I am able to cope with.

"At the end of the day, we both want a good front end. It's just a question of how stable the rear end can be. And certainly Max has been able to cope with a looser rear end."

This combined with Marko saying that they have found a solution that makes both drivers happy makes me think a) they are running a fair bit of ballast to balance the car for both Perez and max and b) Perez has no excuses this year.

It feels deliberate to be clear that the car is not being developed in one way or the other, and that Perez is starting from a good place this year

[BlueCheetah66]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... /10437292/

"I'd say that there are very few drivers that like understeer," he said. "I think there's not many drivers that like it.

"And so, from my point of view, Max is able to cope with a less stable rear end than I am able to cope with.

"At the end of the day, we both want a good front end. It's just a question of how stable the rear end can be. And certainly Max has been able to cope with a looser rear end."

This combined with Marko saying that they have found a solution that makes both drivers happy makes me think a) they are running a fair bit of ballast to balance the car for both Perez and max and b) Perez has no excuses this year.

It feels deliberate to be clear that the car is not being developed in one way or the other, and that Perez is starting from a good place this year

Those last sentences from Perez is quite interesting. I feel like a lot of people assume that because Verstappen disliked the understeer on the RB18 from the start of 2022, it meant it was suited towards Perez's style. But in actual fact the source of the understeer was more from the weight of the car. Perez does well in cars with understeer, because it usually will have a stable rear end and he can make use of his skill in acceleration. That doesn't really work well if the source of the understeer is the car being overweight.

[Big Tea]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... /10437292/

"I'd say that there are very few drivers that like understeer," he said. "I think there's not many drivers that like it.

"And so, from my point of view, Max is able to cope with a less stable rear end than I am able to cope with.

"At the end of the day, we both want a good front end. It's just a question of how stable the rear end can be. And certainly Max has been able to cope with a looser rear end."

This combined with Marko saying that they have found a solution that makes both drivers happy makes me think a) they are running a fair bit of ballast to balance the car for both Perez and max and b) Perez has no excuses this year.

It feels deliberate to be clear that the car is not being developed in one way or the other, and that Perez is starting from a good place this year

Those last sentences from Perez is quite interesting. I feel like a lot of people assume that because Verstappen disliked the understeer on the RB18 from the start of 2022, it meant it was suited towards Perez's style. But in actual fact the source of the understeer was more from the weight of the car. Perez does well in cars with understeer, because it usually will have a stable rear end and he can make use of his skill in acceleration. That doesn't really work well if the source of the understeer is the car being overweight.

It may just be slightly less 'touchy' and allow a fraction either side of the 'perfect' mark and Chico is finding it easier.
Sort of a flatter apex which Max could stand one foot now Checo can get both feet down

[chrisc90]

https://thejudge13.com/2023/02/27/red-b ... -mercedes/

I think i'll laugh at some of the comments made in this article.

[AR3-GP]

First upgrades in Baku.

Red Bull takes no risks
Red Bull is obviously not sitting still either, but there the first major update package might take a little longer. That has everything to do with the wind tunnel penalty imposed on the team by the FIA, according to Helmut Marko. "We have to be economical, both with the budget cap and the wind tunnel times. There is no room for experiments or risks." Red Bull's first major upgrade is expected in Baku.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/183955/u ... mical.html

The budget cap penalty is definitely having an influence. They aren't free to experiment in the windtunnel as much as other teams.

If what we are seeing already is the case, I don't think the season is going to be straight forward at all for RB. They are at great risk of being out developed by Mercedes and Ferrari. Max will have to be driving within an inch of his life to maximize the early part of the season.

[organic]

First upgrade package at Baku doesn't seem to be quoted from Marko and I haven't seen that info outside gpblog.. which I do not trust as a primary source

It seems very easy to speculate for every team that the first major upgrade will come in Baku due to the large gap before it.

Any idea if they're getting that info from somewhere in particular? Or speculation for clicks..

[jumpingfish]