2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Xyz22]

Guys please don't use qualifying times. Norris was capable of going 1s quicker in the race...

McL had:

- (Way) More downforce. The difference in sector 1 is embarrassing
- Less drag

F1 vs F2

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F64lzCIXcAM ... name=large

But this is no secret. They have an exeptionally well performing floor and they were lower on the wing so it is normal for them to have less drag on the straights. It was always going to be a strong race for them. They were this strong even beforr the upgrades at circuits like this. Take Barcelona for example.


I'm almost confident enough to guarantee we've already seen 80% of their '24 car. They've certainly chewed through their budget and ATR time. Fortunately for them they were competent enough to design a chassis that allowed for big aero changes. That is not the case for us.

https://ibb.co/B67dzpM
https://ibb.co/wN5fRbm

I agree that the SF 23 was impossible to "save". That became clear pretty much immediately. Ferrari brought very few upgrades last year as well, and overall they always struggled to keep up with the competition during a season.

Just wanted to highlight that using quali gaps is not that useful considering how big the gap is in the race.

[Sphere3758]

Fair point about Sainz, but I think it is trickier at Mercedes. Russell is their chosen one for the future, they cannot antagonize him too much as he might lose confidence in the team. They can only do that if they have the atmost confidence in Kimi Antonelli being the next big thing in F1.

The decision is far easier for Ferrari tbh. Sainz is not being sought by any top team, his only real option is Audi which is a complete unknown. It is hard enough to beat Max Verstappen even with equal cars, should be a no brainer for Ferrari to not add additional roadblocks in Leclerc's way and make his life at the team easier.

Even if he's the future it's Hamilton who brings the point at the moment. Merc would probably end up in 4th place without Hamilton's consistency because McLaren is scoring a lot now.
About Sainz I think it's the usual politics at Ferrari and Sainz has a lot of political power with Santander + his father.
Leclerc hadn't the best of luck this year and he had a few bozo race when the car was really handful to drive and he didn't win at Singapore. Now he's 15 points behind Sainz. But it's 2021 all over again, or let's say 2022 Russell vs Hamilton. There's the sort term and the medium term. Leclerc is pure talent. I also think despite all the issues I mentioned earlier which led him to be 15 pts behind Sainz he will finish ahead of him in the standings.
As you said Ferrari should take the easy road to beat Max. Even in this scenario it's not impossible for Sainz to win a Championship in a Raikkonen/Massa situation.

Not only Ferrari politics and Santander, but the Spanish media as well (OK, maybe also influenced by Santander). All season they've been posting comments about how Sainz has been getting the bad calls in order to favor Leclerc. The latest one from Marca is that he was "sacrificed" to help Charles in Japan, in particular by not following Hamiltons second pitstop... which was actually Carlos' call, but they don't mention that. All of this is just adding more unnecessary pressure on the team, and further dividing the fans.

As good as both drivers are I think it’s a mistake for Ferrari to keep both; Their driving styles are too different. I think it’s obvious that Charles can adapt to a car easier than Carlos. When the car suits Sainz, the two drivers are separated by a couple of hundredths. When the car suits Charles, it’s a couple of tenths. Eventually with this understeery car, Leclerc will adapt and be ahead of Sainz more often than not, but we wont see his true potential. But then if you give Charles the car he wants, the narrative will switch to an unhappy Carlos who has been sacrificed to protect “the chosen one” as they like to say. We'll end up having Carlos racing for team Sainz, and not team Ferrari.

I think the best move at this point is to keep only one. I would prefer they keep Charles, but if they don’t he won’t have a problem getting a seat anywhere. They could trade Red Bull for one of their engineers or Aero guys (How crazy would that be? Charles and Max on the same team). Or if Lando does get bought out by RB, McLaren would make a move for Charles if he's available. And if Hamilton retires, well, Mercedes would jump on the opportunity. As far as Carlos, I believe he’s got Audi lined up already. Or I’m sure papa Stroll could also buy him out. That would be interesting… The two Spaniards at Aston Martin? You have to imagine that Lawrence wants to have to good drivers. Make Lance the TD, or buy a seat for him at Williams or Haas.

Either way, as a Tifosi it's frustrating to even have good results, and the car moving in the right direction, end with negativity and finger pointing in the media.

Ferrari will find it quite difficult to get a driver with similar driving style to Leclerc. Albon and Ricciardo are the first names that come to mind, though they are both quite risky in my opinion. Ferrari cannot afford to have a non performing second driver, that formula only works when a team has a overwhelmingly dominant car.

Fred seems to have a sane head on his shoulders. His best option is to keep the status-quo as is, keep the noise down and just build a car for 2024 tailored to Leclerc. He will just need to put his foot down on the strategy team to make sure they understand the priorities.

[scuderiabrandon]

I see small things already ready but nothing fundamental because the SF-23 no longer goes into the tunnel
All work since August is H24 on 676

Giuliano confirms development on the SF23 has been halted since August and focus was shifted to next years car. Small innovations have been prepared for next races but nothing fundamental

[JPower]

Not only Ferrari politics and Santander, but the Spanish media as well (OK, maybe also influenced by Santander). All season they've been posting comments about how Sainz has been getting the bad calls in order to favor Leclerc. The latest one from Marca is that he was "sacrificed" to help Charles in Japan, in particular by not following Hamiltons second pitstop... which was actually Carlos' call, but they don't mention that. All of this is just adding more unnecessary pressure on the team, and further dividing the fans.

As good as both drivers are I think it’s a mistake for Ferrari to keep both; Their driving styles are too different. I think it’s obvious that Charles can adapt to a car easier than Carlos. When the car suits Sainz, the two drivers are separated by a couple of hundredths. When the car suits Charles, it’s a couple of tenths. Eventually with this understeery car, Leclerc will adapt and be ahead of Sainz more often than not, but we wont see his true potential. But then if you give Charles the car he wants, the narrative will switch to an unhappy Carlos who has been sacrificed to protect “the chosen one” as they like to say. We'll end up having Carlos racing for team Sainz, and not team Ferrari.

I think the best move at this point is to keep only one. I would prefer they keep Charles, but if they don’t he won’t have a problem getting a seat anywhere. They could trade Red Bull for one of their engineers or Aero guys (How crazy would that be? Charles and Max on the same team). Or if Lando does get bought out by RB, McLaren would make a move for Charles if he's available. And if Hamilton retires, well, Mercedes would jump on the opportunity. As far as Carlos, I believe he’s got Audi lined up already. Or I’m sure papa Stroll could also buy him out. That would be interesting… The two Spaniards at Aston Martin? You have to imagine that Lawrence wants to have to good drivers. Make Lance the TD, or buy a seat for him at Williams or Haas.

Either way, as a Tifosi it's frustrating to even have good results, and the car moving in the right direction, end with negativity and finger pointing in the media.

Makes no sense to change driver lineups when you’re up against a Mercedes and now McLaren with very quick and talented driver lineups(not counting RB because right now it doesn’t matter who is next to Verstappen). At their best, Leclerc/Sainz can go toe to toe with them. They have the talent and experience to mount a championship challenge. Without an F2004-level car, I don’t think a Leclerc plus whoever else outside of Max/Merc/McLaren/Alonso is going to do that.

Fred is a good manager and has been around this business more than long enough, he should be able to handle both camps.

[Vanja #66]

But this is no secret. They have an exeptionally well performing floor and they were lower on the wing so it is normal for them to have less drag on the straights. It was always going to be a strong race for them. They were this strong even beforr the upgrades at circuits like this. Take Barcelona for example.

It was never about the floor with McLaren, it's about suspension and ride height setup. McLaren was clearly designed to run on harder suspension and does not eat the tyres. Ferrari eats the tyres while running too hard suspension (see Bahrain). Therefore, McLaren can run lower for longer on faster circuits, giving their floor bigger boost. Ferrari had a big edge in slower corners over McLaren this weekend, but that was an overall slower setup on a circuit as fast as Suzuka. If Ferrari were able to set up the car stiffer and lower and without overheating the tyres, they would have done so.

Also, the wing levels were pretty much the same as well as top speeds

[AR3-GP]

But this is no secret. They have an exeptionally well performing floor and they were lower on the wing so it is normal for them to have less drag on the straights. It was always going to be a strong race for them. They were this strong even beforr the upgrades at circuits like this. Take Barcelona for example.

It was never about the floor with McLaren, it's about suspension and ride height setup. McLaren was clearly designed to run on harder suspension and does not eat the tyres. Ferrari eats the tyres while running too hard suspension (see Bahrain). Therefore, McLaren can run lower for longer on faster circuits, giving their floor bigger boost. Ferrari had a big edge in slower corners over McLaren this weekend, but that was an overall slower setup on a circuit as fast as Suzuka. If Ferrari were able to set up the car stiffer and lower and without overheating the tyres, they would have done so.

Also, the wing levels were pretty much the same as well as top speeds

Has anyone figured out why Ferrari is so good in slow corners? I'm asking for a friend...

[jambuka]

So is Ferrari going to work on the suspension & chassis finally for 24 or no? Keep reading all these reports about 24 car being radically different in design n all, will they build RB copy or put out something original ? Would be so boring to have 4 RBesque cars fighting.

[Z-one]

But this is no secret. They have an exeptionally well performing floor and they were lower on the wing so it is normal for them to have less drag on the straights. It was always going to be a strong race for them. They were this strong even beforr the upgrades at circuits like this. Take Barcelona for example.

It was never about the floor with McLaren, it's about suspension and ride height setup. McLaren was clearly designed to run on harder suspension and does not eat the tyres. Ferrari eats the tyres while running too hard suspension (see Bahrain). Therefore, McLaren can run lower for longer on faster circuits, giving their floor bigger boost. Ferrari had a big edge in slower corners over McLaren this weekend, but that was an overall slower setup on a circuit as fast as Suzuka. If Ferrari were able to set up the car stiffer and lower and without overheating the tyres, they would have done so.

Also, the wing levels were pretty much the same as well as top speeds

Has anyone figured out why Ferrari is so good in slow corners? I'm asking for a friend...

The advantage of the low-speed corners（probably only chicane） is in the exit part of the corner, where the Ferrari's traction is still good？
and I think they have poor aerodynamic stability in long corners（including long slow corner），rather than being good in low speed corners,

[scuderiabrandon]

So is Ferrari going to work on the suspension & chassis finally for 24 or no? Keep reading all these reports about 24 car being radically different in design n all, will they build RB copy or put out something original ? Would be so boring to have 4 RBesque cars fighting.

It won't be so boring when were winning races.

[Vanja #66]

Has anyone figured out why Ferrari is so good in slow corners? I'm asking for a friend...

Good mechanical grip, usually comes with softer suspension right? I think they got caught in a WT trap last year when they were designing the SF23, looks to be similar to the one Mercedes got caught in with zeropods. They mixed really low floor with softer suspension expectations so they designed the launch car around that, but then the reality hit them hard.

[organic]

Sainz did have a tyre advantage for the final stint after boxing when they did. Sainz said to leave him out if Hamilton had undercut him but it was the wrong call. They lost too much race time and they came out of the pits 8s back from Hamilton so Sainz didn't have enough laps to get into Lewis' DRS and attack. He only had enough time to get into DRS.

It was already too many laps left out. You think carlos' call to wait even longer and lose a ton more race time to Lewis would be worth it? This is basic strategy which you do not grasp Andres

It's hard to discuss logic with you because you will ignore it and choose to just keep building your sainz Vs Leclerc narrative and turning this thread into a complete mess

With your first message back in a while you're already trying to stir the pot. It's despicable

[Farnborough]

Sainz did have a tyre advantage for the final stint after boxing when they did. Sainz said to leave him out if Hamilton had undercut him but it was the wrong call. They lost too much race time and they came out of the pits 8s back from Hamilton so Sainz didn't have enough laps to get into Lewis' DRS and attack. He only had enough time to get into DRS.

It was already too many laps left out. You think carlos' call to wait even longer and lose a ton more race time to Lewis would be worth it? This is basic strategy which you do not grasp Andres

It's hard to discuss logic with you because you will ignore it and choose to just keep building your sainz Vs Leclerc narrative and turning this thread into a complete mess

With your first message back in a while you're already trying to stir the pot. It's despicable

I agree with this, and continuing monologue about Sainz I dont really feel has rightful place in this team thread, or be the focus of this site.

Such is the blind sightedness of such concentrated delivery though, it completely missed Singapore for Ferrari as a team performance in which CL said......this is my recollection of his words......that before qualli the team decision was to go with whichever driver was fastest, enhance that position (Sainz, if I remember correctly ) and to then sacrifice his own, CL strategy to beat all the other teams to a win.....for Ferrari !! there was no acrimony in his words, some critics of this stance by CL were dispelled by himself as being normal in their desire to advance the whole team. Admiral balance in my view.

Monza.... was spectacular in it's racing from Ferrari and general fans point of view....and very welcome to many many fans to see such a hard fought competition for that place.

This all doesn't warrant being turned into a "Carlos Sainz trolling" event for so many reasons.

[Xyz22]

So the 676 project will likely involve:

- Completely new chassis with a different SIS placement (RB concept?)
- Revised front end (i guess this is a given considering air flows will be completely different?)
- Completely new rear end (this was officially confirmed by Cardile) which will likely involve the redesign of the rear suspension
- New gearbox case
- New floor and diffuser to adapt to the new concept
- New sidepods?

Hopefully they will be able to recycle all the beam wings and rear wings from this year, or at least some of them, considering how much of the car will be changed next year (budget cap).

[bluechris]

So the 676 project will likely involve:

- Completely new chassis with a different SIS placement (RB concept?)
- Revised front end (i guess the air flows will be completely different?)
- Completely new rear end (this was officially confirmed by Cardile) which will likely involve the redesign of the rear suspension
- New gearbox case
- New floor and diffuser to adapt to the new concept
- New sidepods?

Hopefully they will be able to recycle all the beam wings and rear wings from this year, or at least some of them, considering how much of the car will be changed next year (budget cap).

Too many changes if all this are true and i hope they will get it right from the start.

[Xyz22]

So the 676 project will likely involve:

- Completely new chassis with a different SIS placement (RB concept?)
- Revised front end (i guess the air flows will be completely different?)
- Completely new rear end (this was officially confirmed by Cardile) which will likely involve the redesign of the rear suspension
- New gearbox case
- New floor and diffuser to adapt to the new concept
- New sidepods?

Hopefully they will be able to recycle all the beam wings and rear wings from this year, or at least some of them, considering how much of the car will be changed next year (budget cap).

Too many changes if all this are true and i hope they will get it right from the start.

Point 1 and 3 were officially confirmed by Cardile (he didn't say the new chassis will follow the RB concept, but i guess is pretty likely).

He called the 2024 project a "brand new car" while he underlined that the SF 23 was an evolution of the F1 75. I agree it is going to be a huge undertaking, considering pretty much everything will be changed from this year. Cardile added that these changes are made to allow the aero department to extract more performance, because the current architecture has too many limitations.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 34202.html