FIA and FOTA reach agreement, no parallel series

[WhiteBlue]

No refuelling was agreed before the whole budget cap stramash broke loose and I expect it to come next year together with low fuel qually.

Also Fota will eliminate KERS sadly, there will be no incentive to compete with fuel saving except the refuelling ban. New tchnologies will be slow in coming and the aero war will continue.

[DaveKillens]

Right now, we as fans have very little to go one, just two separate statements. One by FIA, and one by Ferrari. So until more information is revealed, we just have to pick apart each word uttered so far. In the FIA press release, they state:

The manufacturer teams have further agreed to the permanent and continuing role of the FIA as the sport’s governing body. They have also committed to the commercial arrangements for the FIA Formula One World Championship until 2012 and have agreed to renegotiate and extend this contract before the end of that period.

Any lawyers here, because every word, every period is relevant. Because it appears that the teams have committed themselves to commercial arrangements until 2012. But after that... will negotiate. Negotiate? In other words, FOTA members would be free of any legal obligation imposed by Bernie, and that in itself is a huge victory for them. And when you enter "negotiations", both sides can try to reach an agreement on issues. But if one side balks at specific issues such as payment from TV revenues, it is possible at that point we then have another war as we just witnessed. But it won't be FOTA versus Max/FIA this time, but instead FOTA versus Bernie. What if during the "negotiations" FOTA demand the lion's share of TV revenue and Bernie disagrees. Well, if neither side gives ground, then no agreement is reached. Then, FOTA is in a position where they can walk away from Bernie's game and start their own series. But this time, no one can sue them for hundreds and hundreds of millions. Which is what Bernie would have done if FOTA had walked away today.
Think long range, as WB suggested. A war is not won in a day, it may take years. In this case, three. First, today, Max is deposed. In three years, FOTA will have Bernie over a barrel, and Mr Ecclestone will be royally screwed. Right now, 50% of all TV revenue goes to CVC, who have absolutely nothing to do with our sport. CVC just use this TV revenue money to pay off their debts, with zero, I repeat, ZERO return back towards this sport. FOTA demands would take a huge bite out of CVC's income, and for Bernie, an impossible situation. CVC wants 50% of TV revenue, FOTA members insist they receive, let's say, 75%. Bernie says it's impossible, FOTA says adios. Then Bernie finds himself in a situation where he has comitted to providing a version of Formula One that still draws in the huge TV audience presently enjoyed. But without FOTA? Without McLaren, Ferrari,and the rest?
This drama is long from over, and in the next three years we will see Bernie attempt to devalue teams such as Mclaren and Ferrari, and divide and destroy FOTA.
FOTA is well aware of this, and they will try to hang tough for the next three years until they resolve the Bernie problem. Then, once that is done, expect FOTA members to turn upon each other. Their common enemy is gone, and unaminity is gone.
But right now, things look good for FOTA.

[The FOZ]

Also Fota will eliminate KERS sadly, there will be no incentive to compete with fuel saving except the refuelling ban. New tchnologies will be slow in coming and the aero war will continue.

Within the rules framework that we presently have, there is no reason to keep KERS. It weights too much, and doesn't give enough power to be worthwhile. If we're keeping the '09 regulations next year, it will continue to fall out of favour with teams on it's own.

The FIA could fix this by opening up the limit on KERS duration and power, hell, I'd love to see unlimited KERS usage, whatever energy you can salvage during braking, you can use later on. None of this xx kWatts for y seconds crap.

[DaveKillens]

From a competition perspective, KERS has been a huge failure. Lots of money spent, and virtually zero return on the investment. But FOTA is dominated by manufacturers, and eventually they will attempt to blend some cool aspects of road car technology with racing cars. Maybe KERS or HERS will come back in a few years, but this time they will have learned from the failure of KERS.
But one thing is sure. If you're going to spend tens of millions developing a technology for racing, it has to be a performance differentiator.

[xpensive]

It's not always obvious to the engineers what will make sense or not, besides, they all love a technical challenge.

Then I guess you have the general blindness of costs in F1, when they can spend 1000 USD for a wheel-nut.

In a perfect world, somebody should of course have blown the whistle on KERS, xplaining how little 400 kJ is in the scheme of things, the equal of 12 ml (0.012 liter) of gasoline in terms of energy.

[ESPImperium]

Glad to see there has been a solution sought and that FOTA have taken the long term view of get the contractual obligations out the way and start afresh in 2013. Also get a new person at the FIA whitch is progress.

I see many candadadates, but there could only be a few worth a mention;

Max' Protogee
The guy that has just gottn into the F1 side at the FIA
Jean Todt (The FOTA Guy)
Sir Jackie Stewart (The fans choice)

But if we are running 2009 rules i have many questions with that decision;

1) As mentioned before, are tire warmers still banned???
2) Again, as mentioned, is refulling banned for next year???
3) Since FOTA have suggested that KERS should be banned till futher notice, is it gonna be banned???
4) Does that mean that STR are now able to take the RB6 chassis for next year, or do they need to become a full constructor again for their STR5???

All this needs clarification now!!!

But the good thing is that certain teams that have gone way-ward this year with their car and results can now have one more update this year, before scrapping this years car and getting into the 2010 car, doing what Brawn and red Bull did last year, stopped early and got a amazing car for this year.

[The FOZ]

It's not always obvious to the engineers what will make sense or not, besides, they all love a technical challenge.

Malarky! I don't think anybody who knows cars (and I'd hope if you're engineering for an F1 team, you would) would mistake KERS as something useful given the power restrictions and weight limitations of the system.

[xpensive]

I'm trying to be nice here FOZ, in particular to some people with a white car who insisted on it for 2009.

[The FOZ]

I'm trying to be nice here FOZ, in particular to some people with a white car who insisted on it for 2009.

Hahahahaha

I was going to make an exception in my earlier statement, but now I'm glad I didn't.

[xpensive]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but even if you with a magic KERS could recover 100% of the kinetic energy from a 700 kg car, braking from 250 km/h to 100, five times over one lap, you still have no more than 7000 kJ stored.

That is the equivalent of 0.2 liters of gasoline, or 700 Hp for some 13 seconds.

[vall]

“A Championship which will be held, as suggested by FOTA, in the spirit of sporting and technological competition, with clear and fixed rules and transparent governance, handled by the F1 Commission.

“The objective is to avoid continual changes decided on by one person alone and to gradually reduce costs, to get back to levels of spending similar to those of the early Nineties within the next two years.

“The FOTA teams constantly promoted these objectives in the interests of motorsport and all its protagonists, first and foremost the fans.”

Details of the governance reforms that have been agreed remain opaque, but the FIA indicated that changes would be made as part of an amended Concorde Agreement – while emphasising that the manufacturer teams had agreed to recognise “the permanent and continuing role of the FIA as the sport’s governing body”.

I am sure it is not just that they will get rid of Max.

[WhiteBlue]

In a perfect world, somebody should of course have blown the whistle on KERS, xplaining how little 400 kJ is in the scheme of things, the equal of 12 ml (0.012 liter) of gasoline in terms of energy.

I have not challenged this figure before but I will add my remark now. You are comparing apples with bananas. Braking energy is pure mechanical energy which is the most valuable and not chemically stored energy which must always be converted to be used in a race car. If you want to compare it you have to compare it to the output of the engine after is has burned the chemical energy and provided mechanical energy. You will find that the figure in relation to fuel has quadrupled by then. The next point is that artificial limitation was applied by unknown politiking manipulators unlikely to be from FIA. If you consider that, you arrive at up to 0.125 L/lap fuel saving. In addition to the additional power the weight of carrying less fuel would also be a benefit. Alas, it isn't going to happen. Had the develoment money been spend on a reasonable system to start with we would probably have a high level of consensus to simply keep it. Next time the engineers in FOTA should not allow someone to manipulate the governance process for such bad decisions.


On a different subject I found an interesting comment by James Allan on his blog http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type ... 6&PO=46246

Max Mosley has relinquished his position as the main contact man at the FIA for F1. Instead the FIA Senate will deal with any issues in F1. Mosley is a member of the Senate and, under FIA rules, he will remain a member in future as an ex-president. There is a sense here that if this deal were to fall through then Mosley would be on hand to take up the FIA's side again.

This sounds like the FIA has rigged a parachute in case FOTA wants to cheat on the compromise and bring their English bulldog back into the ring.

[gcdugas]

In a perfect world, somebody should of course have blown the whistle on KERS, xplaining how little 400 kJ is in the scheme of things, the equal of 12 ml (0.012 liter) of gasoline in terms of energy.

I have not challenged this figure before but I will add my remark now. You are comparing apples with bananas. Braking energy is pure mechanical energy which is the most valuable and not chemically stored energy which must always be converted to be used in a race car. If you want to compare it you have to compare it to the output of the engine after is has burned the chemical energy and provided mechanical energy. You will find that the figure in relation to fuel has quadrupled by then. The next point is that artificial limitation was applied by unknown politiking manipulators unlikely to be from FIA. If you consider that, you arrive at up to 0.125 L/lap fuel saving. In addition to the additional power the weight of carrying less fuel would also be a benefit. Alas, it isn't going to happen. Had the develoment money been spend on a reasonable system to start with we would probably have a high level of consensus to simply keep it. Next time the engineers in FOTA should not allow someone to manipulate the governance process for such bad decisions.

Just allow regenerative braking. If any team can make it worth the weight, complexity and cost, then they deserve to use it unbridled. This is the true innovative spirit of F1.

Let's have the regs wide open. Allow CVTs, AWD, differing wheel sizes, widths and aspect ratios, varying number of cylinders and V-angles, allow innovative rotary valve engines, any displacement engine (a heavy 12 cylinder guzzling 6L engine would be at a disadvantage to a nimble 3L V6 weighing half as much that consumes 50% the fuel so lets free the engineers to experiment) active suspension (no two way telemetry), allow "torque steer braking" (a simple mechanical brake biasing circuit via steering wheel angle), allow torque distributing differentials (no traction control), reduce wing size and bring back ground effects under the side pods without skirts, end the "silly plate" but stipulate that a certain percentage of the car's bottom must be flat (bring back the fabulous sparking Ti bottoming blocks), require that all suspension A-arms and rods be metal for safety, require starters on the engines, no minimum weight but driver weight equalization ballast located on the R&L of the driver's lower rib attached to the seat, refueling allowed but race distance tire encouraged by forbidding tire changes during fuel stops (less marbles = more passing room) etc. Possibly, I say possibly, outlaw carbon brakes to encourage more research into ceramics and increase braking distances for more passing. Imagine big heavy cars zipping down the straights passing the smaller engined ones only to be overtaken once the curves start. We could have several lead changes a lap. Slip streaming would work again with the smaller wings.

Safety and lap times (must be 2 seconds faster than GP2 for instance) could be adjusted solely by wing sizes.

[jddh1]

Braking energy is pure mechanical energy which is the most valuable and not chemically stored energy which must always be converted to be used in a race car.

And the braking energy does not need to be converted? If you design a motor that does not convert energy at all, you will be pretty rich I think.

[Conceptual]

I find it hard to be excited about anything for 2010 in this.

No f*cking KILLER AWD KERS Active aero with unlimited RPM...

No f*cking KILLER tech series from FOTA.

All we get is 2009 all over again.

What a f*cking waste. The races this year aren't even worth the bandwidth to download and archive for future generations.

FOTA didnt get sh*t. They got a 2009 do-over with Max stepping down (as he already promised before). I gotta say that the FIA should have told FOTA to go pound sand just to motivate them to do something incredible. Instead we get a big ass kissing ceremony, and the same shitty racing for ANOTHER year.

What a complete, and utter let down. Almost as bad as when I realized that none of the players in the NFL cared about the game, all they cared about was their stats and their paychecks, PERIOD.

I haven't watched an NFL game since then, and I must say that I would rather re-watch the 1990 season (up-converted to 1080p) instead of going through the trouble of the proxy server that I use for the BBC feed.

The true victim today was Potential. Potential was in high gear this morning, and FOTA and the FIA shot it in the head.

R.I.P to Potential