Mercedes W11

[gvera]

Even if the DAS complies with the technical regulations (and I don't think it does), will its usage comply with the sporting regulations? for example with art. 34.1 (notify the FIA with a suspension setup sheet before qualifying) and art 34.6 (no modification or suspension setup changes under parc fermé)

It's not part of the setup, it's part of the steering. It's not a geometry change any different than turning the steering wheel is a geometry change

As discussed above: this is not steering. Just because it is done with the steering wheel, it does not change the direction of the car. Following this logic: any button you press on the steering wheel is steering too? If they would have added a separate lever to change the toe, nobody would think that this is a new method of steering.
I also think that the reason they told us what is the name of this new concept, is to influence our thinking that this is steering, while it is not.

You cannot add a separate lever to change toe, it won't comply with 10.2.1

10.2.1 With the steering wheel fixed, the position of each wheel centre and the orientation of its rotation axis must be completely and uniquely defined by a function of its principally vertical suspension travel, save only for the effects of reasonable compliance which does not intentionally provide further degrees of freedom.

Being changed by the steering wheel is what turns it legal.

[GPR-A]

I don't understand why so many people are crying foul with this innovation? F1 has always been about pushing the envelop of the regulations and that has been the DNA of the F1 engineers. Why on earth would they be considered the best minds?

A lot of people are now trying to give meaning to the specific words in the regulations, which no one was bothered until now. New definitions for the purpose of steering! Seriously? At this rate, I suspect, the whole of F1 English Dictionary would be debated without much meaning and sense.

[BrunoH]

....

[BrunoH]

the steering should be to steer the car, and not change the toe angles / geo of the front wheels...
this should be fixed and not changeable during running. ( same as aeroparts etc etc )
for me this is worse than ferrari making some magic with its engine... way worse!
i think this is a cheat, simple as that, it goes against the spirit of the rules.
very well thought yes but cmon....

As has been stated, steering into a corner changes the toe angles so the car will turn.

yes, yet hes doing it in a straight, clearly to gain an advantage and not to go around a corner.....

[Mr.G]

Teams should ask for technical directive:

"Is it permitted to use longitual movement of the steering wheel to adjust steering and/or suspension geometry?"

FIA should response "NO" as in the question it's linked with suspension and will be game over for DAS...

[dren]

4) There is the possibility of ride-height change, but I think this would get dodgy with the rules. Still if Merc are doing this I would think it must mean the system is power assisted because it would otherwise be very difficult for the driver to fight aero loads and raise the nose at high speed. Thinking about it though, I suppose there is nothing to stop the system being power-assisted in the rules.

I think this is exactly why they are doing this. It is already legal to change the front tire toe angle with the steering wheel and have the front of the car drop due to suspension geometry. It was legal all last season for Mercedes. Now, they are changing the front tire toe angle with the steering wheel and the front lifts based on suspension geometry.

Manually manipulate steering wheel - two wheel toe angle change - change direction of the car (steer car) - lowers front wing

Manually manipulate steering wheel - two wheel toe angle change - ??? - car lifts front wing

This is where I see there possibly being an issue. The aero benefit when turning is a byproduct of the suspension geometry and maneuvering the car through corners. The aero benefit down the straight by manipulating the steering wheel could be the primary benefit. Mercedes will have to argue the primary benefit is tire wear related.

[Oehrly]

the steering should be to steer the car, and not change the toe angles / geo of the front wheels...
this should be fixed and not changeable during running. ( same as aeroparts etc etc )
for me this is worse than ferrari making some magic with its engine... way worse!
i think this is a cheat, simple as that, it goes against the spirit of the rules.
very well thought yes but cmon....

As has been stated, steering into a corner changes the toe angles so the car will turn.

yes, yet hes doing it in a straight, clearly to gain an advantage and not to go around a corner.....

But the regulations do not say that steering needs to make a car go round a corner. You are using common sense which doesn't always apply in the case of F1.

[dren]

the steering should be to steer the car, and not change the toe angles / geo of the front wheels...

As has been stated, steering into a corner changes the toe angles so the car will turn.

yes, yet hes doing it in a straight, clearly to gain an advantage and not to go around a corner.....

If steering should be to steer the car, as you originally stated, how are you going to do that without changing the toe angle?

[GrizzleBoy]

@Mr.G

But normal.steering also affects the geometry of the suspension though.

Which means teams will effectively be asking for steering to be banned in that scenario.

[BrunoH]

As has been stated, steering into a corner changes the toe angles so the car will turn.

yes, yet hes doing it in a straight, clearly to gain an advantage and not to go around a corner.....

But the regulations do not say that steering needs to make a car go round a corner. You are using common sense which doesn't always apply in the case of F1.

well Hamilton is pressing a button to move the steering wheel... so in fact hes actualy pressing a button to make the change in the tow angle.... so illegal in my view

[wunderkind]

It's not part of the setup, it's part of the steering. It's not a geometry change any different than turning the steering wheel is a geometry change

As discussed above: this is not steering. Just because it is done with the steering wheel, it does not change the direction of the car. Following this logic: any button you press on the steering wheel is steering too? If they would have added a separate lever to change the toe, nobody would think that this is a new method of steering.
I also think that the reason they told us what is the name of this new concept, is to influence our thinking that this is steering, while it is not.

You could still argue that it's steering, it's an input from the steering wheel, which helps the car drive straight could be one argument.

But there is also a "DRINK" button on the steering wheel which does not help the car drive straight in the strictest sense

[MtthsMlw]

yes, yet hes doing it in a straight, clearly to gain an advantage and not to go around a corner.....

But the regulations do not say that steering needs to make a car go round a corner. You are using common sense which doesn't always apply in the case of F1.

well Hamilton is pressing a button to move the steering wheel... so in fact hes actualy pressing a button to make the change in the tow angle.... so illegal in my view

He is setting a 'mark' for data analysis later on. The DAS is not affected by this.

[GPR-A]

yes, yet hes doing it in a straight, clearly to gain an advantage and not to go around a corner.....

But the regulations do not say that steering needs to make a car go round a corner. You are using common sense which doesn't always apply in the case of F1.

well Hamilton is pressing a button to move the steering wheel... so in fact hes actualy pressing a button to make the change in the tow angle.... so illegal in my view

Thank god you are not in FIA or in Mercedes itself (who wouldn't have even attempted this if you were there).

[Just_a_fan]

yes, yet hes doing it in a straight, clearly to gain an advantage and not to go around a corner.....

But the regulations do not say that steering needs to make a car go round a corner. You are using common sense which doesn't always apply in the case of F1.

well Hamilton is pressing a button to move the steering wheel... so in fact hes actualy pressing a button to make the change in the tow angle.... so illegal in my view

The button he is pressing is the "mark" button. All teams use these to allow the driver to put a marker in to the data if they do or feel anything different. It's easier than remembering every little thing and then saying "oh, on lap 5, in turn 3 I felt a bad shift" at the end of a long stint in the car. Just press the button and move on. Then in the debrief, the team will have already pulled the relevant data out and have it ready. They may even have looked at it and decided it wasn't an issue. Or it might have been an indication that something was wrong with the car.

[OO7]

I remember roon creating a new topic a few months ago about innovative addition methods of control a car via the steering wheel, albeit in a more drastic and dynamic fashion.