Mercedes W11

[cirrusflyer]

However: if the driver pulls or pushes the steering wheel, the car does not change direction, meaning, that this is not steering.

The question is: is steering defined as making the car change direction?

As far as I can see steering is only defined as changing the toe angle(s) of no more than two wheels.

Under Article 1: Defintion, neither steering wheel nor steering are defined. Instead land vehicle is defined with this statement...

ARTICLE 1: DEFINITIONS
1.1 Formula One Car :
An automobile designed solely for speed races on circuits or closed courses.
1.2 Automobile :
A land vehicle running on at least four non‐aligned complete wheels, of which at least two are
used for steering and at least two for propulsion.
1.3 Land vehicle :
A locomotive device propelled by its own means, moving by constantly taking real support on
the earth's surface, of which the propulsion and steering are under the control of a driver
aboard the vehicle.

ARTICLE 10 : SUSPENSION AND STEERING SYSTEMS
10.4 Steering :
10.4.1 Any steering system which permits the re‐alignment of more than two wheels is not
permitted.

https://www.fia.com/file/78015/download/26184

The driver is indeed in control of the Mercedes DAS system, so it seems to comply IMO. At least two wheels are used for steering, so that complies. No more than two wheels are used for steering, so that also complies.

Steering is not defined. However, it can be argued that steering means changing the direction of a moving car, and that it does not mean anything else. IF that is true, then what they are doing is not steering.
Legally, this would be very easy to argue.

Well... If you let go the steering wheel, you do not steer/control the direction of the wehicle.
If you are holding the steering wheel you do steer/control the direction even in a straigt line.

Sorry for bad english...

[tmoneyr007]

Will scrutineering now have a step to measure the Toe in both the Min and Max range since it is being changed during the race?

[pantherxxx]

"Steering: to control the direction of a vehicle". I think pushing and pulling the steering wheel is not steering, just because the driver touches the steering wheel, because it's not affecting the direction of the car. It's basically the same as pushing a button on the steering wheel to change the toe of the front wheels which would be illegal.

[Holm86]

Apologies for the lack of technical content in my post but....

I find it hilarious how when everyone was speculating about the Ferrari PU and how they could have maybe found a way to go around certain rules they were called cheaters...

and Merc comes up with this and it's genius, the reason why they are the best, what F1 should be about, innovators, etc..

Double standards much?

The regulations clearly stipulates that the fuel flow must not pass 100kg/h, trying to fool the sensors is clearly a breach of that regulation.

Mercedes have found a way to introduce a new dimension to steering, which is not described in the regulation, so that's the difference

[enri_the_red]

Even if the DAS complies with the technical regulations (and I don't think it does), will its usage comply with the sporting regulations? for example with art. 34.1 (notify the FIA with a suspension setup sheet before qualifying) and art 34.6 (no modification or suspension setup changes under parc fermé)

[Holm86]

Even if the DAS complies with the technical regulations (and I don't think it does), will its usage comply with the sporting regulations? for example with art. 34.1 (notify the FIA with a suspension setup sheet before qualifying) and art 34.6 (no modification or suspension setup changes under parc fermé)

It's not part of the setup, it's part of the steering. It's not a geometry change any different than turning the steering wheel is a geometry change

[Santozini]

The regulations clearly stipulates that the fuel flow must not pass 100kg/h, trying to fool the sensors is clearly a breach of that regulation.

AFAIR the Ferrari PU was deemed legal, but were still called cheaters, as for Merc's DAS i guess we would need to wait and see..

I don't disagree it is genius, and i applaud any kind on innovation in F1, and so should any true fan, despite which team it is.

[supermarine]

Also since a road car runs a lot less negative camber, the contact patch of a street tire should be much bigger, thus generating more rolling resistance, correct?

In an F1 car with the negative camber I think the result should be less dramatic, but probable worth it for Mercedes

I think it all gets rather complicated when you think how sticky, low pressure, and wide f1 tyres are compared to road ones, not to mention how much they are shoved down onto the tarmac by aero at high speed. It may be that road cars tests in the 1970s don't tell us much about how such things work in f1. Still, I have to say I was surprised that just 1 degree of toe could increase resistance by 25%! I would have thought from the video that we are seeing at least that much change in angle on Merc's system.

Overall this trick steering of Merc's has a few possibilities:

1) The car can be run with more toe-out than would otherwise be acceptable for the straights to give an advantage in corners -- particularly slow ones.

2) Tyre wear should be improved and 'scrubbing' the fronts on the straights could help put temperature into them when desired.

3) The driver could potentially reduce the toe-out in the corners to induce under-steer and re-balance the car during a stint -- to protect the rear tyres, for example.

4) There is the possibility of ride-height change, but I think this would get dodgy with the rules. Still if Merc are doing this I would think it must mean the system is power assisted because it would otherwise be very difficult for the driver to fight aero loads and raise the nose at high speed. Thinking about it though, I suppose there is nothing to stop the system being power-assisted in the rules.

[sucof]

Even if the DAS complies with the technical regulations (and I don't think it does), will its usage comply with the sporting regulations? for example with art. 34.1 (notify the FIA with a suspension setup sheet before qualifying) and art 34.6 (no modification or suspension setup changes under parc fermé)

It's not part of the setup, it's part of the steering. It's not a geometry change any different than turning the steering wheel is a geometry change

As discussed above: this is not steering. Just because it is done with the steering wheel, it does not change the direction of the car. Following this logic: any button you press on the steering wheel is steering too? If they would have added a separate lever to change the toe, nobody would think that this is a new method of steering.
I also think that the reason they told us what is the name of this new concept, is to influence our thinking that this is steering, while it is not.

[Holm86]

Even if the DAS complies with the technical regulations (and I don't think it does), will its usage comply with the sporting regulations? for example with art. 34.1 (notify the FIA with a suspension setup sheet before qualifying) and art 34.6 (no modification or suspension setup changes under parc fermé)

It's not part of the setup, it's part of the steering. It's not a geometry change any different than turning the steering wheel is a geometry change

As discussed above: this is not steering. Just because it is done with the steering wheel, it does not change the direction of the car. Following this logic: any button you press on the steering wheel is steering too? If they would have added a separate lever to change the toe, nobody would think that this is a new method of steering.
I also think that the reason they told us what is the name of this new concept, is to influence our thinking that this is steering, while it is not.

You could still argue that it's steering, it's an input from the steering wheel, which helps the car drive straight could be one argument.

[pantherxxx]

It's not part of the setup, it's part of the steering. It's not a geometry change any different than turning the steering wheel is a geometry change

As discussed above: this is not steering. Just because it is done with the steering wheel, it does not change the direction of the car. Following this logic: any button you press on the steering wheel is steering too? If they would have added a separate lever to change the toe, nobody would think that this is a new method of steering.
I also think that the reason they told us what is the name of this new concept, is to influence our thinking that this is steering, while it is not.

You could still argue that it's steering, it's an input from the steering wheel, which helps the car drive straight could be one argument.

That's why it's an exploitation of a loophole in the regulations rather than a technical innovation.

[214270]

Even if the DAS complies with the technical regulations (and I don't think it does), will its usage comply with the sporting regulations? for example with art. 34.1 (notify the FIA with a suspension setup sheet before qualifying) and art 34.6 (no modification or suspension setup changes under parc fermé)

It's not part of the setup, it's part of the steering. It's not a geometry change any different than turning the steering wheel is a geometry change

As discussed above: this is not steering. Just because it is done with the steering wheel, it does not change the direction of the car. Following this logic: any button you press on the steering wheel is steering too? If they would have added a separate lever to change the toe, nobody would think that this is a new method of steering.
I also think that the reason they told us what is the name of this new concept, is to influence our thinking that this is steering, while it is not.

You’re preoccupied with its use on the straight too much. Ask yourself whether it steers when used in a corner

[BrunoH]

the steering should be to steer the car, and not change the toe angles / geo of the front wheels...
this should be fixed and not changeable during running. ( same as aeroparts etc etc )
for me this is worse than ferrari making some magic with its engine... way worse!
i think this is a cheat, simple as that, it goes against the spirit of the rules.
very well thought yes but cmon....

[dren]

the steering should be to steer the car, and not change the toe angles / geo of the front wheels...
this should be fixed and not changeable during running. ( same as aeroparts etc etc )
for me this is worse than ferrari making some magic with its engine... way worse!
i think this is a cheat, simple as that, it goes against the spirit of the rules.
very well thought yes but cmon....

As has been stated, steering into a corner changes the toe angles so the car will turn.

[GrizzleBoy]

Even if the DAS complies with the technical regulations (and I don't think it does), will its usage comply with the sporting regulations? for example with art. 34.1 (notify the FIA with a suspension setup sheet before qualifying) and art 34.6 (no modification or suspension setup changes under parc fermé)

It's not part of the setup, it's part of the steering. It's not a geometry change any different than turning the steering wheel is a geometry change

As discussed above: this is not steering. Just because it is done with the steering wheel, it does not change the direction of the car. Following this logic: any button you press on the steering wheel is steering too? If they would have added a separate lever to change the toe, nobody would think that this is a new method of steering.
I also think that the reason they told us what is the name of this new concept, is to influence our thinking that this is steering, while it is not.

The steering wheel changing the direction the steered wheels are facing is not steering the wheels?

Using that logic, no movement of the wheel in any direction is ever actually steering the wheels, because you're trying to make the argument that a steering wheel, steering the wheels, is not steering.