Concept power units from 2030

[vorticism]

[DenBommer]

And does anyone see AWD making its debut in F1 in the future? Now that Formula E will be fully AWD from Gen4 onwards, and Gen5 will likely also feature solid-state batteries.

[NL_Fer]

And does anyone see AWD making its debut in F1 in the future? Now that Formula E will be fully AWD from Gen4 onwards, and Gen5 will likely also feature solid-state batteries.

Not really, just doesn’t fit formula racing. But probably front axle regeneration motors, that only recover energy during braking. They can be made much smaller since they only need to work for 1-2 seconds and have enough time to cool in between corners.

[DenBommer]

And does anyone see AWD making its debut in F1 in the future? Now that Formula E will be fully AWD from Gen4 onwards, and Gen5 will likely also feature solid-state batteries.

Not really, just doesn’t fit formula racing. But probably front axle regeneration motors, that only recover energy during braking. They can be made much smaller since they only need to work for 1-2 seconds and have enough time to cool in between corners.

Okay, but when you have front axle generators, I think you could also have front motors for a little more weight. No?

I just think there’s no benefit to having only generators at the front. Maybe I’m wrong?

[Tommy Cookers]

in 2026 we have 350 kW MG capacity that acts on the rear wheels ....

if 2030 adds eg 350 kW MG capacity that acts on the front wheels ......
logic then says .....
integrate a generator with the ICE
and lose the 8 speed gearbox and clutch and drop gears and final drive gears and LSD (and the revvy noises)

[vorticism]

Which is one permutation of what Kawasaki are proposing above for 2030 general aviation (series hybrid).

[mzso]

And who sees the V4 actually making its debut in Formula 1? I’m thinking around 2030 or 2033, perhaps.

I just watched the the B Sport video about the 919, it was rather interesting
So I guess if Porsche didn't fail to enter F1, the coming of V4s would be far more likely. It's quite near F1 levels without even electric power, since they got 720 hp out of an engine that was designed to be 500hp.

[wuzak]

And who sees the V4 actually making its debut in Formula 1? I’m thinking around 2030 or 2033, perhaps.

I just watched the the B Sport video about the 919, it was rather interesting
So I guess if Porsche didn't fail to enter F1, the coming of V4s would be far more likely. It's quite near F1 levels without even electric power, since they got 720 hp out of an engine that was designed to be 500hp.

But at what fuel flow rate?

[DenBommer]

And who sees the V4 actually making its debut in Formula 1? I’m thinking around 2030 or 2033, perhaps.

I just watched the the B Sport video about the 919, it was rather interesting
So I guess if Porsche didn't fail to enter F1, the coming of V4s would be far more likely. It's quite near F1 levels without even electric power, since they got 720 hp out of an engine that was designed to be 500hp.

But at what fuel flow rate?

I think with the first model they were restricted by the Le Mans rules, but I’m not sure.

With the Porsche 919 Evo (with 700 hp) they didn’t restrict the fuel flow.

[mzso]

And who sees the V4 actually making its debut in Formula 1? I’m thinking around 2030 or 2033, perhaps.

I just watched the the B Sport video about the 919, it was rather interesting
So I guess if Porsche didn't fail to enter F1, the coming of V4s would be far more likely. It's quite near F1 levels without even electric power, since they got 720 hp out of an engine that was designed to be 500hp.

But at what fuel flow rate?

By the looks of it 80.6 kg/h.

[mzso]

I just watched the the B Sport video about the 919, it was rather interesting
So I guess if Porsche didn't fail to enter F1, the coming of V4s would be far more likely. It's quite near F1 levels without even electric power, since they got 720 hp out of an engine that was designed to be 500hp.

But at what fuel flow rate?

I think with the first model they were restricted by the Le Mans rules, but I’m not sure.

With the Porsche 919 Evo (with 700 hp) they didn’t restrict the fuel flow.

Probably you're right. I also don't think you can draw too far reaching conclusions from fuel flow. It doesn't seem like they were forced to use extreme fuel saving technologies like F1 did, with no further restrictions besides fuel flow limits.

[Hoffman900]

I just watched the the B Sport video about the 919, it was rather interesting
So I guess if Porsche didn't fail to enter F1, the coming of V4s would be far more likely. It's quite near F1 levels without even electric power, since they got 720 hp out of an engine that was designed to be 500hp.

But at what fuel flow rate?

By the looks of it 80.6 kg/h.

Only in LeMans trim. The latter was “uncorked” with rules be damned. There is a two part Race Engine Technology dossier that tells you more about this PU than you’d ever want to know, straight from Porsche.

https://www.highpowermedia.com/Product/ ... -issue-124

https://www.highpowermedia.com/Product/ ... -issue-125

[wuzak]

I just watched the the B Sport video about the 919, it was rather interesting
So I guess if Porsche didn't fail to enter F1, the coming of V4s would be far more likely. It's quite near F1 levels without even electric power, since they got 720 hp out of an engine that was designed to be 500hp.

But at what fuel flow rate?

By the looks of it 80.6 kg/h.

"Quite near F1 Levels"

500hp @ 80.6kg/h => ~ 620hp @ 100kg/h.

Some way off F1 performance at that fuel flow level.

[wuzak]

But at what fuel flow rate?

I think with the first model they were restricted by the Le Mans rules, but I’m not sure.

With the Porsche 919 Evo (with 700 hp) they didn’t restrict the fuel flow.

Probably you're right. I also don't think you can draw too far reaching conclusions from fuel flow. It doesn't seem like they were forced to use extreme fuel saving technologies like F1 did, with no further restrictions besides fuel flow limits.

The "extreme fuel saving technologies" used in F1 gave extra power, not better fuel saving.

LMP1 did have fuel tank size restrictions as well, which is equivalent to F1's race fuel usage.

Dare I say that the competition was less in LMP1, and the reward (prize money, advertising, etc.) was also less.

[wuzak]

Also, teh 2026 ICE will have (slightly) more power than LMP1 with lower fuel flow and lower energy density fuel.

There have also been hints by Nikolas Tombazis that, at their peak power, the PUs could exceed the power of the current PU by as much as 100hp, which would mean ICE power in excess of 600hp.