2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Wouter]

I wonder why they went for this option with the clear problem of rain in the forecast.

.
The forecast on Saturday AND Sunday morning said the rain from early mornings would stop between 1:30 and 2:30 PM.

[avantman]

I know the car was on fent in slippery conditions but looking at Max's driving on his outlap on mediums on a damp track is certainly not to his usual standard. Went off 3 times in one lap, losing like 8s to stroll and needed 15 laps to shake off gasly finally.

Other than that, the only way to have good pace with this setup was only if track was completely dry. You have to minimise time spent in low speed corners as much as possible and stay on full throttle for as long as possible to carry the most straight line speed advantage from the wing. Any other scenario and sauber is faster than RB21 (for real).

Very interesting observations Juzh. Tsunoda was 16.5s slower than Max on his outlap, and Juki had even slightly better conditions, cause he was significantly behind (both pitted on lap 41). Could you please watch Tsunodas outlap if you have access to his onboard? How many off track excursions did he have? Or was he just crawling slowly? From everything we saw from Tsunoda previously, he is at very least above average in wet conditions. The car was bad in wet to such extent that I very much doubt it would be competitive in dry either.

[Juzh]

I know the car was on fent in slippery conditions but looking at Max's driving on his outlap on mediums on a damp track is certainly not to his usual standard. Went off 3 times in one lap, losing like 8s to stroll and needed 15 laps to shake off gasly finally.

Other than that, the only way to have good pace with this setup was only if track was completely dry. You have to minimise time spent in low speed corners as much as possible and stay on full throttle for as long as possible to carry the most straight line speed advantage from the wing. Any other scenario and sauber is faster than RB21 (for real).

Very interesting observations Juzh. Tsunoda was 16.5s slower than Max on his outlap, and Juki had even slightly better conditions, cause he was significantly behind (both pitted on lap 41). Could you please watch Tsunodas outlap if you have access to his onboard? How many off track excursions did he have? Or was he just crawling slowly? From everything we saw from Tsunoda previously, he is at very least above average in wet conditions. The car was bad in wet to such extent that I very much doubt it would be competitive in dry either.

I had a look on his onboard, oh man was it hard to watch. Tsunoda had 10s penalty he had to serve, that's why his outlap was so slow, but then he also had zero confidence. If we deduct those 10s from his outlap he he was still 2 seconds slower in S1, 3.5 slower in S2 (that's despite verstappen being off twice) and 0.6s slower in S3. Verstappen needed a few laps to regain his confidence after all those off track excursions but still he was over 2s faster on the next lap.
Worth noting Tsunoda was dead slow even before switch to slicks. Verstappen had like 3-4s per lap on him. This is kinda unacceptably slow in my opinion. Ok, car was abysmal, but 4s.. really?

[avantman]

I know the car was on fent in slippery conditions but looking at Max's driving on his outlap on mediums on a damp track is certainly not to his usual standard. Went off 3 times in one lap, losing like 8s to stroll and needed 15 laps to shake off gasly finally.

Other than that, the only way to have good pace with this setup was only if track was completely dry. You have to minimise time spent in low speed corners as much as possible and stay on full throttle for as long as possible to carry the most straight line speed advantage from the wing. Any other scenario and sauber is faster than RB21 (for real).

Very interesting observations Juzh. Tsunoda was 16.5s slower than Max on his outlap, and Juki had even slightly better conditions, cause he was significantly behind (both pitted on lap 41). Could you please watch Tsunodas outlap if you have access to his onboard? How many off track excursions did he have? Or was he just crawling slowly? From everything we saw from Tsunoda previously, he is at very least above average in wet conditions. The car was bad in wet to such extent that I very much doubt it would be competitive in dry either.

I had a look on his onboard, oh man was it hard to watch. Tsunoda had 10s penalty he had to serve, that's why his outlap was so slow, but then he also had zero confidence. If we deduct those 10s from his outlap he he was still 2 seconds slower in S1, 3.5 slower in S2 (that's despite verstappen being off twice) and 0.6s slower in S3. Verstappen needed a few laps to regain his confidence after all those off track excursions but still he was over 2s faster on the next lap.
Worth noting Tsunoda was dead slow even before switch to slicks. Verstappen had like 3-4s per lap on him. This is kinda unacceptably slow in my opinion. Ok, car was abysmal, but 4s.. really?

The tougher the car the bigger the gap, we saw similar things with Michael and his teammates at Benetton and early Ferrari, despite them being very capable drivers.
Thanks for detailed overview! Everything points at the car falling completely out of its narrow working window.

[bigblue]

I was watching Yuki's times on and off during the race and he seemed to be a second or two slower than _anyone_ else quite often (caveat, someone should double-check this, but I'm fairly sure this was the way it was - anyone got a source of data, like ranked lap times per lap?). No idea what was going on, it was really bad. I have a vague feeling he got a bit better towards the end, I can't remember now. It all seemed very odd, I wondered if he was carrying damage, but no one's mentioned that, so I suppose not. The car must have been absolutely appalling to him (ok, Max had the new-new version of the floor, but this was a bit of a disaster nonetheless). I hope some miracle happens and he has a good race next, but it doesn't seem likely given the run he's on, unfortunately. While he's not the second-coming of Senna, he's not that bad a driver. Odd.

[vorticism]

Many high level employees left Red Bull over past years, but this is kind of normal I guess.

Good point. They would have to weigh pressure for promotions, against keeping the good directors where they are. Extrapolate across twenty years. Newey had been with them since around '06 (their '07 car was his first). Eighteen years was probably Newey's longest stint with any team. If RB are promoting internally I respect them for that. Sort of like their drivers' program.

I think this is only part of the story, though. The elephant in the room for me is that the RB21 looks almost identical to the RB20. Every other team brought noticeably different cars to the '25 season, although this basically meant making them look more like an RB20. That said, McLaren are the only ones who took the RB18/19/20 concept to the next stage, when it should have been RB themselves doing that. Yet RB is running the same car for two seasons. Maybe all development is being put into 2026. Maybe their R&D structure was broken with Newey's departure. Who knows.

Regardless of all this, for me there's still the question of: why leave while a team is winning?

[Watto]

Many high level employees left Red Bull over past years, but this is kind of normal I guess.

Good point. They would have to weigh pressure for promotions, against keeping the good directors where they are. Extrapolate across twenty years. Newey had been with them since around '06 (their '07 car was his first). Eighteen years was probably Newey's longest stint with any team. If RB are promoting internally I respect them for that. Sort of like their drivers' program.

I think this is only part of the story, though. The elephant in the room for me is that the RB21 looks almost identical to the RB20. Every other team brought noticeably different cars to the '25 season, although this basically meant making them look more like an RB20. That said, McLaren are the only ones who took the RB18/19/20 concept to the next stage, when it should have been RB themselves doing that. Yet RB is running the same car for two seasons. Maybe all development is being put into 2026. Maybe their R&D structure was broken with Newey's departure. Who knows.

Regardless of all this, for me there's still the question of: why leave while a team is winning?

Wonder how much the budget cap played into it. Before they could bump up the wages to keep people retained. Maybe offered more senior positions is enticing for a lot of people . The dynamic of RBR has changed a lot too I think it's become a little more corporate since Mateschitz passing. At Hornergate might not bean they had a view one side of the other of the incident but maybe a less enjoyable workplace with a power struggle happening, probably a bunch of little things

[organic]

Horner has been sacked. Wow

If they had done this 18 months ago then Newey would perhaps still be here and Wheatley could've been promoted

Perhaps this is a last gasp attempt to keep Verstappen as we know Jos/Max have been unhappy with Horner's presence for a while now (ever since hornergate)

[McLarenHonda]

Horner has been sacked. Wow

If they had done this 18 months ago then Newey would perhaps still be here and Wheatley could've been promoted

Nice! Now only Marko left so that the team can at last do away the toxic environment!

[organic]

It will be a big rebuild job if Max leaves.

[MB_Racer]

Horner has been sacked. Wow

If they had done this 18 months ago then Newey would perhaps still be here and Wheatley could've been promoted

Perhaps this is a last gasp attempt to keep Verstappen as we know Jos/Max have been unhappy with Horner's presence for a while now (ever since hornergate)

This is the craziest news of the year after Sir LH joining Ferrari …. Will Horner now join them also


And who will lead RB now that Jonathan Wheatley is at Sauber !!??

[tinuva]

So Max signing/ed with Merc?

[organic]

Horner has been sacked. Wow

If they had done this 18 months ago then Newey would perhaps still be here and Wheatley could've been promoted

Perhaps this is a last gasp attempt to keep Verstappen as we know Jos/Max have been unhappy with Horner's presence for a while now (ever since hornergate)

https://twitter.com/ErikvHaren/status/1 ... 4JSoA&s=19

This is the craziest news of the year after Sir LH joining Ferrari …. Will Horner now join them also


And who will lead RB now that Jonathan Wheatley is at Sauber !!??

Van Haren reports that Laurent Mekies succeeds Horner.

[MB_Racer]

So Max signing/ed with Merc?

The end of RB for a while if this happens!

Other option is that they fired Horner in a last attempt to keep Max ??

[Sergej]

Wow. Van Haren says Mekies new TP.

Now the question is: is this the last tentative to keep Max, or is this happening just because Max has already left ?