2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Emag]

Is there any estimate/analysis how much time did Max lose due to lower PU performance in the race? How many laps did he drive like that?

If you assume he would be able to hold a 21.7s pace (the first lap out of the last stint), then I guess the PU would have cost him around 0.8s since his pace soon-after stabilized around 22.5s

It's the only obvious spike in laptime and it sticks out compared to the others who pretty much held the same pace they had from the first lap out on new tires, so I guess it's also fair to assume he was only limited by the PU (at least substantially so) on the last stint.

Piastri on his charge back to Leclerc was doing 22+s? Piastri and Norris managed only two laps under 22s. There is no way that Verstappen would be able to hold a 21.7s pace. That lap was him going for a fastest lap on fresh rubber. I don't think he was undercutting anyone at that moment.

There are 3 laps after that 21.7 where he was running 23s and after that he holds 22.5s. That is only visible time where he was running very different to other laps. Maybe those three laps were lower PU performance or it was during the whole race.

Well, Max pit a bit later compared to Oscar, and he pit for mediums, not hards. A 21.8s pace is not so farfetched, but I guess if you want to dial it down a bit, let's assume he would be able to hold a 22.0s with mediums and slightly fresher rubber. Then a more realistic estimation is around 0.5s, which is still quite significant I would say.

[marcel171281]

Is there any estimate/analysis how much time did Max lose due to lower PU performance in the race? How many laps did he drive like that?

If you assume he would be able to hold a 21.7s pace (the first lap out of the last stint), then I guess the PU would have cost him around 0.8s since his pace soon-after stabilized around 22.5s

It's the only obvious spike in laptime and it sticks out compared to the others who pretty much held the same pace they had from the first lap out on new tires, so I guess it's also fair to assume he was only limited by the PU (at least substantially so) on the last stint.

The PU problem occured earlier than that. Very soon after the first stop actually. He also had to do a 'fail' setting on the steering wheel ('fail 20 fail'). He came back about 3 seconds behind Hamilton and although much fresher tyres, he only just could match his pace, or even slowly lost out, while in the first stint he was quicker than Hamilton and even was right in the DRS before Hamilton pitted. (he would have overtaken him that lap 100%)

The last stint he started with a recharge lap, to do a 'mode 1, strat 1' fastest lap on lap 2. After that he had to cool the tyres for a significant amount of laps. I think the tyres were done after that push lap anyway, because there was never any real performance after that.

And yes, my focus during the race is 99% on the Verstappen onboard/radio, whit the world feed as second screen.

[AR3-GP]

Can't see how, they can't do anything with the car:

Mercedes and Red Bull are performing the duties on behalf of Pirelli, with the two teams logging the laps and putting in the miles – the tests do not allow for any development or setup work, with the cars running in previously used configurations and only using whichever tyres are laid out for them at any given moment by the tyre manufacturer.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/liam-laws ... test-monza

They just setup the car to a previous raced setup, and then have to leave it there. I'm sure they get data from sensors that they keep, but in terms of actually learning something new, changing the tyres to new ones really won't give them much at all because they have nothing to compare it to.

After the Italian GP, tyre tests will take place in Monza, which may help us get back on track.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... iegen.html


They don't care about the tires. They care about aero balance and stability. They could have chosen a previous setup. There are sensors on the car. They could have run a previously raced setup for comparison to sim and wind tunnel. It's naive to think the F1 teams don't learn anything. Even just having Lawson's feedback, compared to that of Verstappen and Perez is useful.

[SiLo]

Can't see how, they can't do anything with the car:



https://www.planetf1.com/news/liam-laws ... test-monza

They just setup the car to a previous raced setup, and then have to leave it there. I'm sure they get data from sensors that they keep, but in terms of actually learning something new, changing the tyres to new ones really won't give them much at all because they have nothing to compare it to.

After the Italian GP, tyre tests will take place in Monza, which may help us get back on track.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... iegen.html


They don't care about the tires. They care about aero balance and stability. They could have chosen a previous setup. There are sensors on the car. They could have run a previously raced setup for comparison to sim and wind tunnel. It's naive to think the F1 teams don't learn anything. Even just having Lawson's feedback, compared to that of Verstappen and Perez is useful.

I didn't say they didn't learn anything, but they won't have learned much from running the same setup, they will already have 300km of data there.

Having a complete unknown in the tyres also makes it very hard to infer anything.

[organic]

Marko

"We realised at Monza that there is a massive, fundamental problem with the RB20. The positive thing is that everyone is working together and at full speed to find a solution."

[Wouter]

Marko

"We realised at Monza that there is a massive, fundamental problem with the RB20. The positive thing is that everyone is working together and at full speed to find a solution."

.
Normally Max is always in Milton Keynes on Thursdays after a GP, but he is already there today, Wednesday.
Maybe to analyse data that Liam gathered yesterday?
Perez was only in MK last Monday and is already in Mexico, while he said he would be in the factory all week this week
to help find a solution.

[KimiRai]

Marko

"We realised at Monza that there is a massive, fundamental problem with the RB20. The positive thing is that everyone is working together and at full speed to find a solution."

That was quick wow. I wish good luck and hope the fixes work!

[djones]

Marko

"We realised at Monza that there is a massive, fundamental problem with the RB20. The positive thing is that everyone is working together and at full speed to find a solution."

I imagine the problem they have is that everybody is working on it.... apart from Newey.

[Paa]

"Fundamental problem" doesn't suggest quick solution.

[venkyhere]

Don't believe a single word that the old man says. I've been misled so many times. Now I know.

[AR3-GP]

Yes, I dont read that as anything positive or anything quick. Any of the bottom 7 or 8 teams could have said the same thing...

[bluechris]

I believe that soon will find their way, maybe the will need to roll back some updates and a new front wing?

[KimiRai]

Don't believe a single word that the old man says. I've been misled so many times. Now I know.

Yes, I dont read that as anything positive or anything quick. Any of the bottom 7 or 8 teams could have said the same thing...

My bad. I thought there was something coming for Austin so I made a connection that does not have to be the case

[Chuckjr]

Horner is looking higher up within Red Bull Group personally and wants to expand from F1 operation to hypercar segment, starting with RB17. Red Bull Racing is his life's work and he wants to use it to expand the business unit and has the backing of Thai family for that plan. It's a long term plan to walk a similar path to McLaren and Ferrari, to an extent.

For some reason, as far as I was told, Austrian side wants to keep RBR 100% F1 focused and objects to hypercar expansion. I think it's hard to argue with Thai's logic of using the amazing engineering know-how to expand and create a big and fairly profitable brand which will financially support F1 team as its core, instead of having an F1 team that needs Red Bull sponsorship to function.

The whole episode was created to destabilize Horner and force him to quit. That to stop Horner taking over control of Red Bull GmBH as per his blueprint, backed by Yoovidhya. The Austrian side came up with a plan, but despite it's hooha, the plan failed as Yoovidhya was committed to execute the master plan where Horner would be the CEO and headquarters move to Dubai with many Austrian heads rolling. A truce has been made for the time being, those who created the storm, eventually cleaned it up and now it's an uncomfortable peace. How long is Yoovidhya going to delay his plans is question mark.

Jos is only going to clean the floor if he continues to exist. He is a collateral damage for Austrian side that has no significance. I even doubt Horner is forcing Max out with car starting to underperform. That would eliminate Max and Marko's influence in the team and cut the noise. Short term loss of success would help long term business plans. New driver that would replace Max would be someone that is going to be completely loyal to Horner. That's my 2 cents. Perez and Daniel are going to exist for quite a long time in the team. Reward for loyalty.

These were very insightful posts to understand the larger picture controlling the smaller picture currently in play. Thank you Vanja and Dunlay

[Paa]

Yes, I dont read that as anything positive or anything quick. Any of the bottom 7 or 8 teams could have said the same thing...

It is kind of positive if it means they understood what is behind the problem. Even if it doesn't come with a quick solution.
But it's not clear from that quote, if he really means that way. Or they just finally acknowledged that car is really bad, without having deeper understanding of the root cause, let alone a solution.