Red Bull RB19

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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atanatizante
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Joined: 10 Mar 2011, 15:33

Re: Red Bull RB19

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AR3-GP wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 22:39
gandharva wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 22:33
vorticism wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 19:16
If this is occurring, what are they doing that is unique in terms of driveline braking? Whether by the engine or the MGUK.

Engine braking would imply something unique within the engine itself. However most of the primary engine geometry is identical for all of the engine suppliers. MGUK operates through the crankshaft and only supplies ~1/5 of overall power.
There is nothing unique about it. Honda has developed an MGUK that allows it to recover greater amounts of energy in a very short time than its competitors. This has been confirmed by telemetry data already. Where other teams run dry at the end of the lap, the Honda engine still has battery juice left. But this comes at a price: drivability. That's why Max is always on the radio with his engineer about the downshifts. They fine tune the mappings/settings for the car's energy recovery.

If these mappings, which are presumably very aggressive, are not tuned perfectly, there will be drivability problems under braking and this might lead to a driver becoming insecure and prone to making mistakes. I think that's what we saw with Perez this weekend.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_sTIu0ybGnk/ ... S%2B01.jpg
The advantage isn't coming from just the MGU-K braking. Honda's advantage is also about the MGU-H recovery which passes to the battery. I cannot find the article yet, but it was explained that Honda made a choice to sacrifice peak power of the ICE, in order to have better MGU-H performance (or something to that effect).
Their highest top speed is not only down to having the biggest and most consistent downforce from all the cars on the grid that allows them to crank the rear wing less or the slippiest car out there. It`s also down to MGU-H mapping which is set to harvest energy more than other engine manufacturers by converting more time fuel to electricity. Simple as that! And this is done only at strategic times such as qualy and overtaking&defending.

Then later at a certain phase of the race when they are in the lead it needs to take a lift and cost phase. Yeah, it`s not efficient fuel management but this allows them to have more electric energy throughout a lap that`s why they are clipping last on the straights.
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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Red Bull RB19

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vorticism wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 05:56
Yeah, drive lugs. The hub is entirely perforated so mounting isn't an issue.

Of note: 7 to 14 spoke layout with 8 pins/lugs. Who signed off on this? :shock: :D
Quite thick spokes as well compared to previous eras. Cars are heavier though and they might be cored out on the other faces.
Hollowspokes.
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aleks_ader
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011, 08:40

Re: Red Bull RB19

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atanatizante wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 06:13
AR3-GP wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 22:39
gandharva wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 22:33

There is nothing unique about it. Honda has developed an MGUK that allows it to recover greater amounts of energy in a very short time than its competitors. This has been confirmed by telemetry data already. Where other teams run dry at the end of the lap, the Honda engine still has battery juice left. But this comes at a price: drivability. That's why Max is always on the radio with his engineer about the downshifts. They fine tune the mappings/settings for the car's energy recovery.

If these mappings, which are presumably very aggressive, are not tuned perfectly, there will be drivability problems under braking and this might lead to a driver becoming insecure and prone to making mistakes. I think that's what we saw with Perez this weekend.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_sTIu0ybGnk/ ... S%2B01.jpg
The advantage isn't coming from just the MGU-K braking. Honda's advantage is also about the MGU-H recovery which passes to the battery. I cannot find the article yet, but it was explained that Honda made a choice to sacrifice peak power of the ICE, in order to have better MGU-H performance (or something to that effect).
Their highest top speed is not only down to having the biggest and most consistent downforce from all the cars on the grid that allows them to crank the rear wing less or the slippiest car out there. It`s also down to MGU-H mapping which is set to harvest energy more than other engine manufacturers by converting more time fuel to electricity. Simple as that! And this is done only at strategic times such as qualy and overtaking&defending.

Then later at a certain phase of the race when they are in the lead it needs to take a lift and cost phase. Yeah, it`s not efficient fuel management but this allows them to have more electric energy throughout a lap that`s why they are clipping last on the straights.
I would even argue they got efficient energy usage due (presumably) relative very low Cd. So they can also run much lighter car for race stints. Witch is huge advantage given whole aero platform is consisted and race trim can be finetuned at pretty much at will with room to spare.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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aleks_ader
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011, 08:40

Re: Red Bull RB19

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if mine previous speculative statement hold any water then from chassis wise they could go even further and reduce volume of main fuel tank. Ofc if they were sure that last years data showed that they can run efficient race car with their aero design. Bonkers engineering if so. Almost like Ferrari 2002 witch was race deamon. So their fuel architecture could provide couple valuable dcm^3 for their undercut, cooling or ICs.... Heck even extra cofg modifications and weight savings would be possible that way.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Red Bull RB19

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No shots of the perez under floor as yet?
For Sure!!

Venturiation
Venturiation
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Joined: 04 Jan 2023, 19:48

Re: Red Bull RB19

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ringo wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 16:50
No shots of the perez under floor as yet?
100 % that there is pics but photographers are more interested in selling them to the teams

marcel171281
marcel171281
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Joined: 22 Feb 2020, 12:08

Re: Red Bull RB19

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Venturiation wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 17:04
ringo wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 16:50
No shots of the perez under floor as yet?
100 % that there is pics but photographers are more interested in selling them to the teams
I watched the full recovery of the car onboard. 3 photographers were present, none of them got low enough to get the floor properly. The car was also very low to the ground during the recovery, so they would have to lie on the ground to do so. They didn't, because they had to keep moving in order not to be run over by the recovery vehicle.

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vorticism
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Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: Red Bull RB19

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vorticism wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 05:44
First look at a RB 18" wheel:
https://cdn-2.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... car-1.webp
Matt Sutton
motorsport.com
We see this cream colored surface on the wheel flange face sometimes, presumably a non stick surface. PEEK or fiberglass, maybe?
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AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Red Bull RB19

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aleks_ader wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 10:35
atanatizante wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 06:13
AR3-GP wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 22:39


The advantage isn't coming from just the MGU-K braking. Honda's advantage is also about the MGU-H recovery which passes to the battery. I cannot find the article yet, but it was explained that Honda made a choice to sacrifice peak power of the ICE, in order to have better MGU-H performance (or something to that effect).
Their highest top speed is not only down to having the biggest and most consistent downforce from all the cars on the grid that allows them to crank the rear wing less or the slippiest car out there. It`s also down to MGU-H mapping which is set to harvest energy more than other engine manufacturers by converting more time fuel to electricity. Simple as that! And this is done only at strategic times such as qualy and overtaking&defending.

Then later at a certain phase of the race when they are in the lead it needs to take a lift and cost phase. Yeah, it`s not efficient fuel management but this allows them to have more electric energy throughout a lap that`s why they are clipping last on the straights.
I would even argue they got efficient energy usage due (presumably) relative very low Cd. So they can also run much lighter car for race stints. Witch is huge advantage given whole aero platform is consisted and race trim can be finetuned at pretty much at will with room to spare.
You have a good point here. The lower drag means that there is more energy available to recover through the MGU-K at top speed. IT's not a significant amount, but it's incremental and this is where RB punishes the competition. Death by a thousand cuts. A little lower rideheight, a little more floor downforce, letting them use ever smaller wings, resulting in a little less drag, a little more ERS efficiency, a little more DRS efficiency, a little less fuel, it just snowballs into a big advantage. Many are looking for the silver bullet but it's the additive sum of many characteristics.

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henry
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: Red Bull RB19

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vorticism wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 05:44
First look at a RB 18" wheel:
https://cdn-2.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... car-1.webp
Matt Sutton
motorsport.com
The wheels are standard across all cars. I believe the manufacturer is BBS.
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vorticism
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Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: Red Bull RB19

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+1 thanks Henry. I had assumed only the wheel covers were standard.
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organic
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Red Bull RB19

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organic wrote:
04 Apr 2023, 01:42
Apparently those vanes are there to manage tire squirt (so basically shooting air at the ground to influence the wake of the tire near the ground).

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Stu
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Joined: 02 Nov 2019, 10:05
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Red Bull RB19

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vorticism wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 05:56
Yeah, drive lugs. The hub is entirely perforated so mounting isn't an issue.

Of note: 7 to 14 spoke layout with 8 pins/lugs. Who signed off on this? :shock: :D
Quite thick spokes as well compared to previous eras. Cars are heavier though and they might be cored out on the other faces.
Aren’t wheels a common part across the grid? BBS supply them all, I think. (Spoke pattern screams BBS.

Edit - @henry beat me to it, that’ll teach me to read down rather than answer!
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mclaren111
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
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Re: Red Bull RB19

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Image


Attention to detail by RB is just great...
Last edited by mclaren111 on 04 Apr 2023, 12:10, edited 1 time in total.