How soon will Vettel / RBR wrap up 2013?

[CHT]

Horner seems determined to wrap up the championship ASAP.
I think they should and they will.

[SectorOne]

It´s for their own benefit in terms of going over full on to 2014.

[turbof1]

I don't think we'll see any more updates on that car, bar the ones that can be carried over to next year.

[donskar]

It might be more interesting to ask, "How soon will Vettel/RBR wrap up 2014? Premane (Lotus) seems to believe that RBR will win next year, too.

[turbof1]

How about this for a question: how soon before RBR does not win both championships?

[SectorOne]

I think 2014 is an end of an era. But if Dietrich keeps pumping that cash in and Newey sticks around they will certainly harvest more titles in the future.
Hopefully they will stick around now and establish themselves in the same way as Williams, Mclaren, Ferrari, Sauber etc.

[donskar]

How about this for a question: how soon before RBR does not win both championships?

I posted an answer to your question in another thread:

Eventually (and it will take a while), interest in the general viewing public will wane, just as we hardcore fans are losing our ardor for F1. Then the big-time sponsors will get a little antsy, and the broadcast networks will try to re-negotiate their license fees, and promoters will try to pay less for their race fees. Etc., etc., you get the picture.

THEN the suits who use F1 as a cash cow will change some rules in an effort to break RB's domination. Remember the mantra of modern F1:
It's not a sport; it's a business.
It's not a sport; it's a business.
It's not a sport; it's a business.
It's not a sport; it's a business.

[CHT]

I think 2014 is an end of an era. But if Dietrich keeps pumping that cash in and Newey sticks around they will certainly harvest more titles in the future.
Hopefully they will stick around now and establish themselves in the same way as Williams, Mclaren, Ferrari, Sauber etc.

success of the team is not just about getting the best individual together and having a big budget, its really about having the right environment and company culture within the organisation for these individuals to flourish in what they are doing. At the moment it seems like Red Bull are getting it right and I believe their more relax culture and flatter organisation structure is giving them the edge over their competitors. I remember not so long ago, teams on on the grid were saying RBR was there to provide track side entertainment.

[SectorOne]

Much of that comes at the benefit of enjoying success. A great vibe in the team won´t put down strong laptimes on the track.
It also won´t provide enough money to out-develop every team on the grid.

The two most fundamental aspects today i would say is money and a car designer that nails it.
If you have those two you can even get away with just having a solid driver rather then the best of the best.
You can also get away with some sub-par pit stop times etc. All that can be added to it at a later stage.

[turbof1]

Much of that comes at the benefit of enjoying success. A great vibe in the team won´t put down strong laptimes on the track.
It also won´t provide enough money to out-develop every team on the grid.

The two most fundamental aspects today i would say is money and a car designer that nails it.
If you have those two you can even get away with just having a solid driver rather then the best of the best.
You can also get away with some sub-par pit stop times etc. All that can be added to it at a later stage.

It isn't about a "great vibe". Putting all the smartest people together and expecting they'll just work together in one cohesive block is asking for disaster. That'll end in misplaced responsibilities, malcontent and lack of trust. If not managed properly, you end up with having parties work against eachother, block progress and end up with a very sloppy performance.

That does not necessarily apply on the car; on only have to look at the garage next to Vettel. Webber isn't able to extract the same performance. It can't be all the drivers fault; I expect a kink somewhere with higher management and engineering failing to perhaps set the car up properly, notice any signs or symptoms a component is going to fail and so on.

Money and a good car designer aren't everything. Back in the day when mclaren was the team with the second highest budget and when they had Newey and other great designers on board, they couldn't make it work either.

Note that Mercedes against all odds made it work. One can only praise their succes in that. It takes a huge effort from the top management to achieve such a feat.

[MOWOG]

Putting all the smartest people together and expecting they'll just work together in one cohesive block is asking for disaster.

Cautionary words for Luca D and the lads at Ferrari, in my judgement.

[FoxHound]

Webber isn't able to extract the same performance. It can't be all the drivers fault; I expect a kink somewhere with higher management and engineering failing to perhaps set the car up properly, notice any signs or symptoms a component is going to fail and so on.

Spot on, echoing my sentiments precisely. I would add to this, that it is of my opinion it is not a failing.
It is primarily by design.
Red Bull operate a number 1 and number 2 car policy, especially in terms of given resources at race weekends.
That's not to say the equipment is different, but like two identical Steinway piano's one that is set up and tuned to perfection will sound and perform to a different level.
I would also add that I think Webber is in no way comparable to Vettel, just to muddy the waters a bit.

Sure Vettel fans can be proud of their driver's achievements. But like Schumacher from 2000 to 2004, and at the risk of upsetting MSC fans, I feel his 2 Benneton titles of '94 '95 have far more gravitas in terms of competitive achievement than his Ferrari 5 title blitz.
At no time in Schumachers 5 years streak did anyone have machinery that could eclipse the prancing horse.
At no time in the last 4 years has anyone had better machinery that could eclipse Red Bull over a season.
Some will nitpick and argue this is not the case and that for a couple races McLaren where faster(in both MSC and VET cases). I would disagree, as 2/3 races do not make a championship

It still stands as a great achievement for Vettel, and it takes nothing away from him or the team. But like most things, some are more special than other and this is subjective.

Note that Mercedes against all odds made it work. One can only praise their succes in that. It takes a huge effort from the top management to achieve such a feat.

Again heartily agree. And I think there is more fireworks to come from these guys in 2014.

[CHT]

Can we take the discussion of Webber somewhere else.
Lets focus on Vettel and RBR wrapping up championship.

[FoxHound]

Thread title: How soon will Vettel/RBR wrap up 2013?

RBR=Vettel and Webber.

Unless you would like to start a thread titled: How soon will Vettel and the Red Bull Racing team including Webber, wrap up 2013?

[LionKing]

At no time in Schumachers 5 years streak did anyone have machinery that could eclipse the prancing horse.
At no time in the last 4 years have anyone had better machinery that could eclipse Red Bull over a season.
Some will nitpick and argue this is not the case and that for a couple races McLaren where faster(in both MSC and VET cases). I would disagree, as 2/3 races do not make a championship

What 2/3 races??? McLaren was clearly the superior car in 2012.

Even in the second half where RBR is told to have a surge: McLaren had 6 poles and 5 wins and RBR had 4 poles and 4 wins. That is with the 2 McLaren wins lost to mechanical issues in that period. Otherwise Mclaren would have won 7 of 10 races in second.

In 2012 on average, McLaren was a tad over 2 tenths quicker than RBR in dry qualifying sessions as well.