This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
That's the point. If Red Bull - Porsche deal broke down, there will be no rebadging to Porsche. Porsche cannot invent a engine factory in UK. You can't buy up a different engine factory as there is none available. So there is no way to partner with McLaren unless if you rebadge Audi (something Audi said won't be done).
My point is that the story about the breakdown is probably bogus and that if Porsche comes into F1, it will be with Red Bull.
A main subsidiary of the biggest (or 2nd biggest?) car group in the world could possibly get a factory together in the UK or elsewhere especially when in partnership with McLaren. Another nice silver building next to the wind tunnel or road car building perhaps If anyone can do it they can. But it'll most likely be a simple rebadge and nothing ever to do with McLaren. Anything can happen in F1. Got to hand it to Red Bull though they are going to have a lot if expertise in the engine front. Ex Honda, poached talent and some new talent, then input from Porsche and VAG.
Why Porsche should set up an Engine factory in the UK? Porsche has enough money, resources and Germany has the best engineers in the world anyway to build the best F1 engine.
Think of Porsche like a glorified Alfa Romeo sponsorship.. no engine and no engine facilities.. a ghost engine manufacturer
A main subsidiary of the biggest (or 2nd biggest?) car group in the world could possibly get a factory together in the UK or elsewhere especially when in partnership with McLaren. Another nice silver building next to the wind tunnel or road car building perhaps If anyone can do it they can. But it'll most likely be a simple rebadge and nothing ever to do with McLaren. Anything can happen in F1. Got to hand it to Red Bull though they are going to have a lot if expertise in the engine front. Ex Honda, poached talent and some new talent, then input from Porsche and VAG.
Why Porsche should set up an Engine factory in the UK? Porsche has enough money, resources and Germany has the best engineers in the world anyway to build the best F1 engine.
Did RBR buy the Honda plant that Honda built? They're not using it, all the Honda stuff is being done in Japan and RBR have zero to do with the current Honda PU.
Why Porsche should set up an Engine factory in the UK? Porsche has enough money, resources and Germany has the best engineers in the world anyway to build the best F1 engine.
Renault is in France, Honda in Japan and Ferrari in Italy. Why would Porche/Audi go to the Uk? Just cause Merc Did?
Ferrari engines are in Italy alongside their chassis facility. Mercedes engines are in the UK alongside their team operations. One thing RB wanted to achieve with RBPT was to bring the engine programme to the same location as the chassis facility.
That is what I'm trying to get at. It's not impossible to be successful with the foreign engine operations, but it's just easier to set up under the same roof.
Isn’t this getting way off topic, or at least until we see some solid links between McLaren and Porsche? That’s how this conversation started.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously.
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.
Why do you want an engine factory in GB? If anything Audi and Porsche will operate from Ingolstadt or Stuttgart. If you start building an engine factory today it will be ready half a year after the other manufacturers have already a running engine...
The big benefit of RB was that they had space in the factory before the new building is ready and that they could hire with the close proximity the guys from Brixworth. I simply do not see how McLaren could do something sililar now at their place...if anything Porsche and Audi will rely on the people that did the LMP1 engines.
Why Porsche should set up an Engine factory in the UK? Porsche has enough money, resources and Germany has the best engineers in the world anyway to build the best F1 engine.
Audi CEO talked about this - it's not a speculation. Audi will build an engine factory in Germany. They are committed to this and will build engines in Germany. He also said that Porsche (if they enter) will build engines in the UK. He also explicitly said that they do not want to rebadge engines because that means that one of the cars will be a compromise. He also said they used to build two engines/cars when they were in LMP1 and that it was not an issue. They intend to do the same.
It's possible Porsche changes their mind, but I'd say it's a pretty major shift if it happens. In my opinion, it's much more likely that they do not enter if they can't get a deal with Red Bull Powertrains.
Did RBR buy the Honda plant that Honda built? They're not using it, all the Honda stuff is being done in Japan and RBR have zero to do with the current Honda PU.
They definitely poached loads of staff from that plant, but I'm not sure about the plant itself. Apparently it was only for tuning race maps and so on, they did very little on the hardware side, maybe some maintenance. Certainly didn't have any manufacturing capabilities, so maybe it's uses were limited.
Renault is in France, Honda in Japan and Ferrari in Italy. Why would Porche/Audi go to the Uk? Just cause Merc Did?
Because their rumoured engine partner built an entire engine factory there. And because part of the deal was to have everything under one roof in Milton Keynes. Porsche wouldn't mind, they were getting a sweet sweet deal to join a project like that, until RB realized they were ceding too much control and got cold feet.
A Porsche partnership would be cool, but only if its as a sole PU Manufacturer, I feel Porsche would only be interested if its able to have a percentage ownership in the racing team, which I'm sure would come with a lot of bureaucratic implications. And I don't see how it can happen anyway because they are direct competitors in the auto industry.
I'm expecting the MCL37 to be pretty radical or Mr. Key should start to feel a little nervous. From his comments about there being "other ideas" the team thought of but did not implement on the "conservative" MCL36, I expect that the team would learn from their mistakes. The funny thing is that when the car launched I thought that the team said the car was pretty radical, but when we saw the rest of the grid it seemed like the goalposts were moved. The team made the same gross underestimation of the available innovation within the new regs in 2009 and arguably in 2014 also.
On another note; something that I've picked up on is that the team hasn't really poached any headline technical talent from the top teams in a while. The last one I can think of is Prodomou and that was eight years ago. Meanwhile, Aston is snatching Merc/RB folks at an alarming rate, Haas has Ferrari personnel, AlphaTauri probably has some RB personnel, etc. Clearly Zak is not afraid to break the bank to get drivers, but you can put Lewis, Max, or whoever else in the MCL36 and they aren't going any better than Alpine is now. Could have used someone like Allison or even Aldo Costa from Merc to steer the ship into the 2022 regs alongside/above Key.
I know the facilities at McLaren aren't exceptional, but I have a hard time believing that is the sole problem (not that anyone says it is, but it is the common answer).
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain
I'm expecting the MCL37 to be pretty radical or Mr. Key should start to feel a little nervous. From his comments about there being "other ideas" the team thought of but did not implement on the "conservative" MCL36, I expect that the team would learn from their mistakes. The funny thing is that when the car launched I thought that the team said the car was pretty radical, but when we saw the rest of the grid it seemed like the goalposts were moved. The team made the same gross underestimation of the available innovation within the new regs in 2009 and arguably in 2014 also.
On another note; something that I've picked up on is that the team hasn't really poached any headline technical talent from the top teams in a while. The last one I can think of is Prodomou and that was eight years ago. Meanwhile, Aston is snatching Merc/RB folks at an alarming rate, Haas has Ferrari personnel, AlphaTauri probably has some RB personnel, etc. Clearly Zak is not afraid to break the bank to get drivers, but you can put Lewis, Max, or whoever else in the MCL36 and they aren't going any better than Alpine is now. Could have used someone like Allison or even Aldo Costa from Merc to steer the ship into the 2022 regs alongside/above Key.
I know the facilities at McLaren aren't exceptional, but I have a hard time believing that is the sole problem (not that anyone says it is, but it is the common answer).
People have to want to leave to be poached. Allison just accepted the CTO role at Merc in 2021 with Mike Elliott replacing him as Technical Director.
I'm expecting the MCL37 to be pretty radical or Mr. Key should start to feel a little nervous. From his comments about there being "other ideas" the team thought of but did not implement on the "conservative" MCL36, I expect that the team would learn from their mistakes. The funny thing is that when the car launched I thought that the team said the car was pretty radical, but when we saw the rest of the grid it seemed like the goalposts were moved. The team made the same gross underestimation of the available innovation within the new regs in 2009 and arguably in 2014 also.
On another note; something that I've picked up on is that the team hasn't really poached any headline technical talent from the top teams in a while. The last one I can think of is Prodomou and that was eight years ago. Meanwhile, Aston is snatching Merc/RB folks at an alarming rate, Haas has Ferrari personnel, AlphaTauri probably has some RB personnel, etc. Clearly Zak is not afraid to break the bank to get drivers, but you can put Lewis, Max, or whoever else in the MCL36 and they aren't going any better than Alpine is now. Could have used someone like Allison or even Aldo Costa from Merc to steer the ship into the 2022 regs alongside/above Key.
I know the facilities at McLaren aren't exceptional, but I have a hard time believing that is the sole problem (not that anyone says it is, but it is the common answer).
Can't make "radical" designs without the tools needed to do so.
McLaren will be at a disadvantage until the wind tunnel is up.
I guess people forgot McLaren completely switched suspension layouts?
And yes, I think that the wind tunnel is one of the reasons McLaren is behind. Their turnaround has to be slower than other teams and this compounds the issue.
If anyone can do it they can. But it'll most likely be a simple rebadge and nothing ever to do with McLaren. Anything can happen in F1. Got to hand it to Red Bull though they are going to have a lot if expertise in the engine front. Ex Honda, poached talent and some new talent, then input from Porsche and VAG.
