2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
CjC
CjC
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 13:31
FittingMechanics wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 12:53
CjC wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 12:43


Frustratingly, we had a contributor who was able to give us a heads up about up and coming upgrades but was shouted down by another contributor (who rarely contributes to this thread themselves) so they now keep their insider knowledge to themselves.
I'm sceptical that contributor had real insider knowledge but a shame they no longer post here.
PikeStance wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 12:43
Perez was the only one in the top 10 to pit, most of the bottom ten pitted after one lap. Max and Alonso pitted at the end of lap 2. Perez was already 7 seconds faster in one sector. By lap 2 the track was already wet.

Bottomline, they made the wrong call. best to learn and move on from it.
They need to improve their processes or software to be able to notice these huge deltas immediately, if Perez is 20 seconds a lap faster you need to pit immediately, the track will not dry off in two laps.
PhilipM was definitely legitimate, he's been ahead of the curve very often. He always made it clear that the people he was speaking to weren't aero guys or engineers. I think they were in manufacturing, so they only knew of updates once they moved to manufacturing. I don't bookmark stuff unfortunately, but he was the first source to
say that the MCL60 had issues and would be underwhelming.
Regardless of being legitimate or not, everyone should feel free to post what ever they like, if you think it’s utter BS just scroll on by, read the next post and leave the keyboard warrior pad alone.

It’s like with many things the unnecessary actions of the few, spoil the enjoyment for the many. If we believe what the others say then that’s our prerogative.
Just a fan's point of view

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
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Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 12:10

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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From the looks of it, McLaren top speed doesn't seem that bad in Zandvoort. Maybe the team ran with lower DF than we expected?

LionsHeart
LionsHeart
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Joined: 09 Mar 2023, 19:21

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 14:05
From the looks of it, McLaren top speed doesn't seem that bad in Zandvoort. Maybe the team ran with lower DF than we expected?
Yeah, not bad. The team could adjust the front and rear wing in such a way as not to create peak pressure. Perhaps that is why it is so, or in terms of barn doors, the McLaren chassis does not look so bad. In any case, I'm glad to see such parameters.

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mwillems
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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LionsHeart wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 13:36
Very interesting:

The International Automobile Federation FIA announced the tightening of technical regulations in the field of control over the flexibility of the aerodynamic elements of the car. The new technical directive, which has come into the possession of the Motorsport editors, has been sent to the Formula 1 teams ahead of the Dutch Grand Prix, notifying them that the stricter regulation requirements will come into force with the Singapore Grand Prix.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... /10513290/

Which teams will suffer the most?
I've not reviewed the current state of play but last time I looked Mclaren were one of the teams least exploiting this, but this was at the end of last year. On the front wings RB I think were pretty flexible, I think Ferrari too, Merc also but less so... but this is memory not fact. It's worth a look at the onboards on the Monza straight to see what those front wings are doing!

But is this focussed more on the floors? It's worth working the assumption that the FIA want to close the gap so you'd assume the RB has some undue flexing on it somewhere!

I feel fairly certain though I've seen the RB front wing flexing a lot. I have no clue about the rears, but like I say, this feels like they suspect flexing is used to seal the floors by some more than others.


It'll be interesting to see what these new tests are since you are only breaking the rules if you fail the tests, not if you fail the letter of the regulations :lol:
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

LionsHeart
LionsHeart
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Joined: 09 Mar 2023, 19:21

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 16:09
LionsHeart wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 13:36
Very interesting:

The International Automobile Federation FIA announced the tightening of technical regulations in the field of control over the flexibility of the aerodynamic elements of the car. The new technical directive, which has come into the possession of the Motorsport editors, has been sent to the Formula 1 teams ahead of the Dutch Grand Prix, notifying them that the stricter regulation requirements will come into force with the Singapore Grand Prix.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... /10513290/

Which teams will suffer the most?
I've not reviewed the current state of play but last time I looked Mclaren were one of the teams least exploiting this, but this was at the end of last year. On the front wings RB I think were pretty flexible, I think Ferrari too, Merc also but less so... but this is memory not fact. It's worth a look at the onboards on the Monza straight to see what those front wings are doing!

But is this focussed more on the floors? It's worth working the assumption that the FIA want to close the gap so you'd assume the RB has some undue flexing on it somewhere!

I feel fairly certain though I've seen the RB front wing flexing a lot. I have no clue about the rears, but like I say, this feels like they suspect flexing is used to seal the floors by some more than others.


It'll be interesting to see what these new tests are since you are only breaking the rules if you fail the tests, not if you fail the letter of the regulations :lol:
Thanks for the comment. I never thought that flexing of the front wing can be used for bottom efficiency. I generally thought that the camber was needed more to reduce drag on straight lines, as well as to stabilize the balance in fast corners where excessive control is not required.

I think 6 teams may be affected. And some will have to make changes to the design of the front wings. I can’t say anything about the rear wing, I didn’t see the bending or flexing.

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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LionsHeart wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 17:02
mwillems wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 16:09
LionsHeart wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 13:36
Very interesting:

The International Automobile Federation FIA announced the tightening of technical regulations in the field of control over the flexibility of the aerodynamic elements of the car. The new technical directive, which has come into the possession of the Motorsport editors, has been sent to the Formula 1 teams ahead of the Dutch Grand Prix, notifying them that the stricter regulation requirements will come into force with the Singapore Grand Prix.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... /10513290/

Which teams will suffer the most?
I've not reviewed the current state of play but last time I looked Mclaren were one of the teams least exploiting this, but this was at the end of last year. On the front wings RB I think were pretty flexible, I think Ferrari too, Merc also but less so... but this is memory not fact. It's worth a look at the onboards on the Monza straight to see what those front wings are doing!

But is this focussed more on the floors? It's worth working the assumption that the FIA want to close the gap so you'd assume the RB has some undue flexing on it somewhere!

I feel fairly certain though I've seen the RB front wing flexing a lot. I have no clue about the rears, but like I say, this feels like they suspect flexing is used to seal the floors by some more than others.


It'll be interesting to see what these new tests are since you are only breaking the rules if you fail the tests, not if you fail the letter of the regulations :lol:
Thanks for the comment. I never thought that flexing of the front wing can be used for bottom efficiency. I generally thought that the camber was needed more to reduce drag on straight lines, as well as to stabilize the balance in fast corners where excessive control is not required.

I think 6 teams may be affected. And some will have to make changes to the design of the front wings. I can’t say anything about the rear wing, I didn’t see the bending or flexing.
The closer to the ground the front wing is, the more efficient it is, until it gets too close and bottoms out like any Aerodynamic device. It is a little different now as you want sufficient air to get to the floor, but if the wings flex at the extremity and don't lower the nose too much at the centre then you retain airflow to the floor and get a downforce buff as well as streamlining the car at high speed and produce more DF in Med - High Speed corners.

When the wing gets closer to the ground and less air is behind the front wing, the low pressure becomes even lower pressure behind the wing and begins to get sucked into the ground, increasing those forces.

Flexi rear wing simply increases the Aero efficiency of the car at higher speeds I think, not sure it increases DF just reduces drag at higher speeds and raises the wing back to full height for more DF as the car is slower, or less impacted by aero forces.

Reading the article I can see now that it has nothing to do with the floor and talks specifically about the front and rear wings. This very much feels like an attempt to reign in RB plus whoever else is collateral damage.

Mclaren tend not to be too exploitative but I'll confess I don't know if this is the case or not today. Worst case we don't fall back, best case we might get a few tenths closer for free.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

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mwillems
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 14:05
From the looks of it, McLaren top speed doesn't seem that bad in Zandvoort. Maybe the team ran with lower DF than we expected?
The start finish line is only halfway down the straight, I think this will look worse if they had taken it from the end of the straight, but still it is interesting.

Also worth noting that with the track being slippy and the straights being short it will reduce the effects of the drag as the cars would not be going as fast as they could otherwise go.

Edit: Just looked at some of the data briefly and indeed the end of straight speeds are similar between ourselves, Merc, RB and AM for our fastest laps. But every one of them is able to brake much later into turn 1 but this seems to rebound back to us as we have the fastest exit from turn 1, suggesting good traction at the rear.
Last edited by mwillems on 30 Aug 2023, 19:16, edited 2 times in total.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

CjC
CjC
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Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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More developments coming to stay in the fight for second fastest team.

A NEW LOW DRAG WING for Monza😎

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10513456/
Just a fan's point of view

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 18:46
More developments coming to stay in the fight for second fastest team.

A NEW LOW DRAG WING for Monza😎

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10513456/
That is fantastic news, let's wait and see what the wing looks like before we get too excited though!
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

MCLvamos
MCLvamos
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Joined: 30 Jun 2023, 18:41

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 18:57
CjC wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 18:46
More developments coming to stay in the fight for second fastest team.

A NEW LOW DRAG WING for Monza😎

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10513456/
That is fantastic news, let's wait and see what the wing looks like before we get too excited though!
Not to burst the optimism, but having read the article, it's not a direct quote from Stella. Besides, that could be another way of mentioning the "modified wing" that's been discussed earlier. I think we just have to wait till Friday to see how wholesale the changes are, but I hope you guys are right and my scepticism is ill-placed!

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mwillems
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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MCLvamos wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 19:01
mwillems wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 18:57
CjC wrote:
30 Aug 2023, 18:46
More developments coming to stay in the fight for second fastest team.

A NEW LOW DRAG WING for Monza😎

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10513456/
That is fantastic news, let's wait and see what the wing looks like before we get too excited though!
Not to burst the optimism, but having read the article, it's not a direct quote from Stella. Besides, that could be another way of mentioning the "modified wing" that's been discussed earlier. I think we just have to wait till Friday to see how wholesale the changes are, but I hope you guys are right and my scepticism is ill-placed!
Yes my thoughts exactly. Is it low or lower? Hopefully low but we will see, still not convinced.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

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mwillems
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Hmmmm.... it may be as we feared.

I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

Macklaren
Macklaren
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014, 16:26

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Love how the above two posts are directly contradictory :lol:

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mwillems
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Not really, it just says made adjustments in the first post. Second post says the same.

Only time will tell.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit