2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[CRazyLemon]

A lot in this short interview with Carlos.

What we all saw in the tests regarding degradation was fact, not this high fuel load nonsense that circulated last week. 1 week to look at the data, no setup (or setup ideas) could eradicate the issue.

He also attributes the issue to the rear as others in here have.

His demeanor seemed ok, not sure if it is because he's mood is just pragmatic, but you don't get a sense of doom for the year. Also it seems there's no expectation of the same all the time.

So glimpses of things to offer so.e hope for the season.

[Sevach]

This car is very difficult to understand, in qualy it looked like it understeered, they were amongst the quickest in the few high speed corners so they have downforce... I assumed that Ferrari tailored their setup towards protecting the rear tires but they still cooked them.

Hard to understand what needs to change.

[Andi76]

Car is not shyt. Obviously fans are venting because they are angry , if we do good job in next few races things will come down to normal...

But I do feel .. this aero/concept has its limitations/serious flaws. look at how swiftly AM changed its fortunes. all they did is steal few Adrien Newey disciples and copy RB concept. Even with the coping everything looks fine. And look at Mercs and Ferrari, both seem like stuck with same persistent issues ... Trying multiple things not knowing what to do.

exactly and i don't think it's about copying redbull

fallows ( who built the RB18) used what he learned from newey and applied to aston martin but by having original sideopods not a copy

there is something else going on in the floor and front suspension when you think that aston martin is doing that performance with mercedes component

and just look at alfa romeo they have no problem with tyre deg because they have same concept as redbull

haas copied ferrari and they have the same high tyres degradation

i think the concept is just at it's limit or they are stuck and haven't used some trick with the floor or suspension that newey and fallows know

Unless they go for complete overhaul of say suspention system or floor stuff I don't think they can catch RB. If it's only Ferrari & hass with major tyre issues then it's has to be some fundamental issue with the concept. Small tweeks won't work instead such approach is affecting the balance of the car and making it worse.

I'm afraid Max is on his way to his 3rd ....

Thats not true. Williams had a similar tire degradation :



So it's not correct to put it down to the concept, because Williams has chosen the "Red Bull concept", which, according to this theory, should not be. The concept does not play a role here. A lot of things have an influence on the tires, but the concept has little to do with it. Here it's about things like balance, weight distribution and weight transfer, suspension stiffness, torsional stiffness of the chassis, energy you put in the tire, thermal management, springs, dampers and geometry, contact frequencies, individual wheel loads during cornering, induced tyre drag, self aligning torque, rolling resistance, caster and kingpin inclination- its so many things, but the aerodynamic concept plays a very subordinate to hardly any role here.

[Vanja #66]

Regarding degradation on Ferrari, it's very interesting to compare Max and Leclerc in the first stint. Max was going 38.0 for 6 laps before tyres started to go, typical driving to delta while pushing. Leclerc was 5-6 tenths per lap slower for 8 laps before tyres started to go. Degradation on Ferrari was only slightly worse than RB.



In his next stint on Softs, Max extended the tyre left with gradually faster laps. Following laps were 37.4-37.7 which is also amazing for driving to delta, but clearly slower laps than possible on those tyres to extend the stint. At the same time, Leclerc was also gradually going faster on Hards, but these laps seem to be have been too fast for Hards. He then got caught up by Perez, the fight to keep the P2 wore his tyres down a lot and his laps after the fight were more than 0.5s slower. If he wasn't fighting, he wouldn't have lost so much time and could have done a better job to keep the tyres alive and have better laps for much longer.

On the other hand, Sainz was painfully slow on Softs, his degradation was clear and instant and I have no idea what was going on with him. Same as last year, maybe even worse. His stints on Hards were also slower than Leclerc's on average, but since he was alone on track his 2nd stint was more uniform than Leclerc's, while his 3rd stint was a rollercoaster due to fight with Alonso and defending against Hamilton. Yet, from lap 48-55 he had consistent laps around 37.6, which doesn't really suggest degradation, but rather slower laps with worn tyres after fighting on track.

So all in all, my feeling is that Ferrari overestimated Hards quite a bit, or they knowingly went "what the hell, lets race and see what happens" with Leclerc. Degradation on Softs for Leclerc was almost the same as Max' but the car was simply half a second slower and we know they were both pushing hard on those first laps. Sainz's race suggest we shouldn't take his laps and degradation of his tyres into account, he wasn't the reference driver in this race, at all...

RB was comfortably the fastest car in the race, giving them a chance to nurse their tyres and look much better than the rest. Not that they weren't, but it wasn't about degradation but rather about the pure pace of the car, at least 0.5s faster than the 2nd fastest car, Ferrari.

[Xyz22]

I've noticed that Ferrari drivers were losing massive amount of time from turn 11 and 13.
They were simply going off the throttle massively, and it's a pattern present in almost all laps i checked, both for Leclerc and Sainz.

Example:

[LM10]

Thats not true. Williams had a similar tire degradation :

https://postimages.org/

So it's not correct to put it down to the concept, because Williams has chosen the "Red Bull concept", which, according to this theory, should not be. The concept does not play a role here. A lot of things have an influence on the tires, but the concept has little to do with it. Here it's about things like balance, weight distribution and weight transfer, suspension stiffness, torsional stiffness of the chassis, energy you put in the tire, thermal management, springs, dampers and geometry, contact frequencies, individual wheel loads during cornering, induced tyre drag, self aligning torque, rolling resistance, caster and kingpin inclination- its so many things, but the aerodynamic concept plays a very subordinate to hardly any role here.

As much as I like the quality in your posts, I’m afraid you’re wasting your time with those guys trying to explain them why they’re plain wrong. They insist on repeating their extremely flawed arguments. I mean, their argumentation is that RedBull, Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo use the same concept and thus have less tyre deg. On the other hand, Ferrari and Haas use the same concept and have high tyre deg they say.

Not a single time have they backed up their arguments with an evidence whatsoever - no numbers, no analysis, nothing. It’s like claiming that storks are delivering human babies because of the coincident correlation between increased numbers of storks and human baby births in non-industrialized regions of Europe.

[JPBD1990]

I wonder if Ferrari’s tyre wear will give them an advantage in less abrasive surfaces where the redbull might be ‘too kind’ on its tyres?

Idk. I’m probably reaching, but looking for silver linings

[organic]

I wonder if Ferrari’s tyre wear will give them an advantage in less abrasive surfaces where the redbull might be ‘too kind’ on its tyres?

Idk. I’m probably reaching, but looking for silver linings

Bahrain certainly exaggerated the weaknesses. Most tracks will be better for the car than Bahrain even if it wasn't updated

Jeddah is front limited, low downforce, very few low speed corners and high grip surface /low deg. So these characteristics will be much more favourable than Bahrain's for sf23

Hard to say how much the balance of power will shift, but will be closer

[Alonsismo]

Regarding degradation on Ferrari, it's very interesting to compare Max and Leclerc in the first stint. Max was going 38.0 for 6 laps before tyres started to go, typical driving to delta while pushing. Leclerc was 5-6 tenths per lap slower for 8 laps before tyres started to go. Degradation on Ferrari was only slightly worse than RB.

https://i.ibb.co/xCmNw4m/2023-BAH.jpg

In his next stint on Softs, Max extended the tyre left with gradually faster laps. Following laps were 37.4-37.7 which is also amazing for driving to delta, but clearly slower laps than possible on those tyres to extend the stint. At the same time, Leclerc was also gradually going faster on Hards, but these laps seem to be have been too fast for Hards. He then got caught up by Perez, the fight to keep the P2 wore his tyres down a lot and his laps after the fight were more than 0.5s slower. If he wasn't fighting, he wouldn't have lost so much time and could have done a better job to keep the tyres alive and have better laps for much longer.

On the other hand, Sainz was painfully slow on Softs, his degradation was clear and instant and I have no idea what was going on with him. Same as last year, maybe even worse. His stints on Hards were also slower than Leclerc's on average, but since he was alone on track his 2nd stint was more uniform than Leclerc's, while his 3rd stint was a rollercoaster due to fight with Alonso and defending against Hamilton. Yet, from lap 48-55 he had consistent laps around 37.6, which doesn't really suggest degradation, but rather slower laps with worn tyres after fighting on track.

So all in all, my feeling is that Ferrari overestimated Hards quite a bit, or they knowingly went "what the hell, lets race and see what happens" with Leclerc. Degradation on Softs for Leclerc was almost the same as Max' but the car was simply half a second slower and we know they were both pushing hard on those first laps. Sainz's race suggest we shouldn't take his laps and degradation of his tyres into account, he wasn't the reference driver in this race, at all...

RB was comfortably the fastest car in the race, giving them a chance to nurse their tyres and look much better than the rest. Not that they weren't, but it wasn't about degradation but rather about the pure pace of the car, at least 0.5s faster than the 2nd fastest car, Ferrari.

on the first stint with softs, leclerc had NEW softs, and max and sainz had USED softs.
that diference between used and news softs between ferraris, made sainz had worst degradation that first laps.
if you look at the laptipmes, you can see that lec had the degradation onthe lap 9 of the tyre, and this lap is the lap 5-6 for the used tyre of sainz (3 laps in qualy)

[Venturiation]

according to formu1a.uno the new car has the same problems as last year
Bahrain Data Analysis: Ferrari just 0.003 faster than 2022,

In qualifying, the extra grip of the soft tyre manages to hide some of the negative characteristics of the SF-23 in the medium and low-speed sections, but as often happens, these issues are exposed in the race.

Ferrari, telemetry condemns the SF-23: The same problems from a few months ago
With the same compound in the first stint, Charles Leclerc lost about 7-tenths per lap against Max Verstappen.

Thus, after a handful of laps, victory was a mere formality for the Dutchman. In the second phase of the race, albeit on different strategies, the gap between Verstappen and Leclerc remained at six-tenths per lap.

Apart from the reliability problems encountered later in the race, the biggest concern for Ferrari is the weaknesses the SF-23 shares with the F1-75, albeit with completely different characteristics.

Ferrari demonstrated good speed in Saturday qualifying but difficulty in race pace – due to a lack of grip at medium and low-speed corners, which often results in poor tyre management. The telemetric comparison between some fast laps of the first and second stints looks like a copy and paste of the last races of 2022.

https://www.formu1a.uno/en/bahrain-data ... enth-jump/

[Phsyklone23]

Couldn't that analysis be based on a less loaded wings we used which may blur the picture a bit

[FDD]

I still can not understand does Ferrari has simulator correlation problem or it is only a rumor?
As far I understand drivers said that they can push the car more but the tires then have a higher degradation, so the tire degradation is clear problem to extract more speed form the car, if I am right.
First race on track which is outlier can not give a good picture about the car.
Also the suspension is all new so they have to read the car and to find the set-up sweet spot together with aero.
The only thing that worries me is the eventual simulator correlation problem.
If the correlation is not an issue, I think that in the next 2-4 races they will unlock a fair amount of speed per lap (in race) with resolving the tire degradation.
To put shortly: They know what they are doing, leave them alone. OK?
PS I am waiting for the results.

[FDD]

There is a table in the text with lap times Max vs Lec for the first stint for 2022 and 2023

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10440880/

[Xyz22]

There is a table in the text with lap times Max vs Lec for the first stint for 2022 and 2023

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10440880/

I see everyone took inspiration from my comparison

[LM10]

There is a table in the text with lap times Max vs Lec for the first stint for 2022 and 2023

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10440880/

Not so bad, considering the F1-75 was a very well balanced car already at Bahrain last season whereas the SF-23 isn't yet.