2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

The race was won anyway by #Verstappen, perfect again today, and much fairer than what was speculated on the eve. Strong-headed, on track, able to drive a low-downforce car even when tire thermal management was the key point. I struggle to think of a driver as strong on tires as him.

[venkyhere]

That stuff is pretty serious deficiency in the team, whereas if Piastri was .1 a lap slower, Lando would have walked to the title.

This kind of statement belittles the depth and breadth of skill that is required to be a good Formula 1 driver. It's not just about pace. I can prove that by pointing you to the many races last year when Max Verstappen defeated Lando Norris despite being 1 tenth or more slower on the race track. I can also point you to the times that even Oscar Piastri defeated Lando Norris despite being slower (Hungary 2024, Monza 2024). So what does your statement really say? Lando's issue is often not pace (though it can be). His greater weaknesses are still lap 1/starts, little mistakes under pressure, and racecraft which is simply a very big hole that a more competent opponent can exploit even if you are faster. Being quick is not enough.

Dude, I don't think any if this changes the fact that he got a bit further than he or the car deserved on their own merit, sorry.

My statement says exactly what it says, Max benefitted from having two equally talented drivers taking points off each other and that it it is very small margins that would put one driver consistently in front. it is not small margins to do the same in the Red Bull, it'd be a miracle.

I think your statement is correct, but only in a limited context. Suppose teamA and teamB have two strong cars :

Q1 : When does 'two #1 drivers from teamB being equally strong' benefit the #1 driver from teamA ?
A1 : only when teamA has the faster car. The challengers from teamB will race with each other rather than him, and even if the teamA driver makes a driving/strategy mistake, he can still recover with pure pace and has a reasonable chance to finish P2, if not P1.

Q2 : When does 'two #1 drivers from teamB being equally strong' afflict the #1 driver from teamA ?
A2 : whenever teamB is the faster car. Then no matter how brilliantly the #1 driver from teamA drives/has better strategy, teamB has two cars to 'cover him', and if both teamB drivers drive mistake free, the guy has to settle for P3.

Now if you do the mapping teamA = Redbull and teamB = McLaren, we can see that it's mostly Q2-A2 scenario (and occasionally Q1-A1) that has panned out over the 2025 season. In fact, for most of the season McLaren has been faster car by a big margin and on the few tracks where the Redbull has been the faster car (Monza, AbuDhabi, for example) it's been faster only by a small margin, it has just 'matched' the Mclaren mostly, whenever the Redbull have not had a 'bad car'. So all the more reason to believe that it's been Q2-A2 scenario this season (and rarely Q1-A1). In fact, out of the three drivers, the guy who made the least mistakes is Max, and that's why he was able to gather so many podiums (even wins) whenever the Redbull has been the 2nd fastest car. Whenever the Redbull has been fastest, he has always won. So my humble conclusion is that Max hasn't benefitted because Mclaren have two #1 drivers, it's actually McLaren drivers who suffered from each other by taking P1 off each other, as both of them were driving equally well. It was only in LasVegas/Qatar, when they simply 'handed over' points to Max via big blunders.

[AR3-GP]

71 career wins in Formula 1. I estimate just 3 more seasons in a competitive car to reach 100. This could be done before 2030.

[venkyhere]

Verstappen's greatest hits of 2025? (for me)
1) Suzuka pole
2) Imola T1
3) Brazil Pitlane -> P3
4) Abu Dhabi Pole (no tow)
5) Miami defense

For me, I never thought Miami defense was much to write home about, it was more of Norris' naivety rather than anything special by Max.

I would add Silverstone pole and Monza pole to this list. Yes those skinny wings gave him straightline speed, but the way he committed into the Lesmos & Parabolica in Monza, Copse in Silverstone, and still came out of it unscathed was something we associate with 'greats' (Degner1 on Suzuka pole was similar in terms of absolute committment).

What he gained in straightline with skinny wings, he should have lost out equal amount (or even more) in such corners (but he didn't, and that's what won him pole). Given the amount of steering lock that had to be put in for such 90 degree sweeper corners (~150 degree in case of parabolica), the car for sure would be dancing nervously with those skinny wings (even if at high speed with more airflow).

[f1isgood]

Verstappen's greatest hits of 2025? (for me)
1) Suzuka pole
2) Imola T1
3) Brazil Pitlane -> P3
4) Abu Dhabi Pole (no tow)
5) Miami defense

Entire Abu Dhabi weekend really. Imola race and Suzuka race and pole. I would also add Baku weekend because it showed skill issue of others very clearly. Vegas was also a very very well managed race.

[f1isgood]

71 career wins in Formula 1. I estimate just 3 more seasons in a competitive car to reach 100. This could be done before 2030.

With a consistently competitive car, it would be done by end of 2027. Max would easily win 15 races in such a car. He won 10 in 2021 while losing out on potential wins at Silverstone/Hungary/Baku. At least 2 of them are realistic shots maybe not Hungary and over the course of the year, Mercedes had better race pace anyways in like 13 odd races. In 2022 he won 15, 2023 we don't even need to say much, 9 even last year and 8 this year, 6 once he got a somewhat competitive car.

[Sergej]

Verstappen's greatest hits of 2025? (for me)
1) Suzuka pole
2) Imola T1
3) Brazil Pitlane -> P3
4) Abu Dhabi Pole (no tow)
5) Miami defense

Agree, with only one correction: I'd put Monza pole instead of AD pole, equally no tow and it will remain as fastest lap in F1 history for very long time. I was very impressed also by the whole Baku weekend.

[Sergej]

71 career wins in Formula 1. I estimate just 3 more seasons in a competitive car to reach 100. This could be done before 2030.

With a consistently competitive car, it would be done by end of 2027. Max would easily win 15 races in such a car. He won 10 in 2021 while losing out on potential wins at Silverstone/Hungary/Baku. At least 2 of them are realistic shots maybe not Hungary and over the course of the year, Mercedes had better race pace anyways in like 13 odd races. In 2022 he won 15, 2023 we don't even need to say much, 9 even last year and 8 this year, 6 once he got a somewhat competitive car.

Very difficult he will be able to win 15 races next year

[f1isgood]

71 career wins in Formula 1. I estimate just 3 more seasons in a competitive car to reach 100. This could be done before 2030.

With a consistently competitive car, it would be done by end of 2027. Max would easily win 15 races in such a car. He won 10 in 2021 while losing out on potential wins at Silverstone/Hungary/Baku. At least 2 of them are realistic shots maybe not Hungary and over the course of the year, Mercedes had better race pace anyways in like 13 odd races. In 2022 he won 15, 2023 we don't even need to say much, 9 even last year and 8 this year, 6 once he got a somewhat competitive car.

Very difficult he will be able to win 15 races next year

Very difficult to say he would win a race at all next year

But, if you give Max a car that works everywhere, I doubt it's going to be much of a challenge for him.

[mwillems]

This kind of statement belittles the depth and breadth of skill that is required to be a good Formula 1 driver. It's not just about pace. I can prove that by pointing you to the many races last year when Max Verstappen defeated Lando Norris despite being 1 tenth or more slower on the race track. I can also point you to the times that even Oscar Piastri defeated Lando Norris despite being slower (Hungary 2024, Monza 2024). So what does your statement really say? Lando's issue is often not pace (though it can be). His greater weaknesses are still lap 1/starts, little mistakes under pressure, and racecraft which is simply a very big hole that a more competent opponent can exploit even if you are faster. Being quick is not enough.

Dude, I don't think any if this changes the fact that he got a bit further than he or the car deserved on their own merit, sorry.

My statement says exactly what it says, Max benefitted from having two equally talented drivers taking points off each other and that it it is very small margins that would put one driver consistently in front. it is not small margins to do the same in the Red Bull, it'd be a miracle.

I think your statement is correct, but only in a limited context. Suppose teamA and teamB have two strong cars :

Q1 : When does 'two #1 drivers from teamB being equally strong' benefit the #1 driver from teamA ?
A1 : only when teamA has the faster car. The challengers from teamB will race with each other rather than him, and even if the teamA driver makes a driving/strategy mistake, he can still recover with pure pace and has a reasonable chance to finish P2, if not P1.

Q2 : When does 'two #1 drivers from teamB being equally strong' afflict the #1 driver from teamA ?
A2 : whenever teamB is the faster car. Then no matter how brilliantly the #1 driver from teamA drives/has better strategy, teamB has two cars to 'cover him', and if both teamB drivers drive mistake free, the guy has to settle for P3.

Now if you do the mapping teamA = Redbull and teamB = McLaren, we can see that it's mostly Q2-A2 scenario (and occasionally Q1-A1) that has panned out over the 2025 season. In fact, for most of the season McLaren has been faster car by a big margin and on the few tracks where the Redbull has been the faster car (Monza, AbuDhabi, for example) it's been faster only by a small margin, it has just 'matched' the Mclaren mostly, whenever the Redbull have not had a 'bad car'. So all the more reason to believe that it's been Q2-A2 scenario this season (and rarely Q1-A1). In fact, out of the three drivers, the guy who made the least mistakes is Max, and that's why he was able to gather so many podiums (even wins) whenever the Redbull has been the 2nd fastest car. Whenever the Redbull has been fastest, he has always won. So my humble conclusion is that Max hasn't benefitted because Mclaren have two #1 drivers, it's actually McLaren drivers who suffered from each other by taking P1 off each other, as both of them were driving equally well. It was only in LasVegas/Qatar, when they simply 'handed over' points to Max via big blunders.

Fundamentally there are 3 points difference between 3rd and 2nd, and 7 points between 1st and second, so the effect of top two taking points off each other earlier in the season was greater than the guy in third actually finishing second to the lead driver from the other team and getting 3 more points or for where the same driver might have always got the win for Mclaren. The points are biased towards fighting for a win whereas there isn't much difference between 2nd and 3rd.

[Wouter]

Max Verstappen ally Helmut Marko to leave Red Bull

Exclusive: Senior adviser who brought through four-time champion but has been a controversial figure in the paddock is set for retirement

Helmut Marko will leave Red Bull at the end of this year, Telegraph Sport understands.
Red Bull's longstanding motorsports adviser, 82, admitted at the final race of the season in Abu Dhabi that he would be weighing up his options this winter amid growing indications he could be heading for retirement.
Asked whether his future at the team was in doubt, Marko said: "It's not in doubt, I will have a discussion and then I see what I do. It's a complex [set] of different things. I have to sleep over it and then we will see."
Paddock sources suggest a decision has already been made and that Marko will be leaving.
His departure will not affect the future of star driver Max Verstappen, for whom the competitiveness of Red Bull's car next season, when radical new regulations come into effect, will be the decisive factor in whether he opts to stay beyond 2026.
At the height of the Christian Horner controversy last year, after it emerged that Marko could be suspended pending an internal investigation into media leaks, Verstappen described the Austrian a close ally of Red Bull's late co-owner Dietrich Mateschitz as an "important pillar" of the team, adding that if Marko went, it would "not be good" for his future either.
"So, for me, Helmut has to stay, for sure," Verstappen concluded.

.
The whole article:

https://archive.is/0zNzh

[organic]

Yea writing is on the wall

[euv2]

Firing Horner was never going to be a great decision, should've just let the team be and let Horner continue to rebuild, there's way too much interference now from the Austrian side. The team is currently being held together by Max.

It will be interesting to see how many people jump ship if Horner gets a TP role in another team and how much effect it has, even Jonathan Wheatley has been able to move key people from the trackside team.

Red bull has yet to make any high profile hires to fill in gaps left by people leaving (Newey, Marshall being the big names), opting instead to promote internal staff.

It will catch up to them at some point, we'll see what Mekies does in the upcoming year to reinforce the team.

[Sergej]

in the end all what matters is how competitive RB22 will be, if it's enough Max stays, if not bye bye.

[AR3-GP]

It looks like Red Bull's transformation into a corporate, shareholder run team has been completed (for better or worse). The Mateschitz spirit is gone. It was already revealing that Marko and Mekies didn't have any say in the drivers. Marko wanted Dunne but was vetoed. Mekies wanted Tsunoda and also rejected. Marko seemingly sacked because he's a character that doesn't exactly fit today's world.

It remains to be seen how this impacts the team in the long run. I'm sure someone is going to decide that RBPT is too expensive, the same way Alpine shareholders decided that Renault power was too expensive. I just cannot see the math that supports RBPT. You can buy a decent PU for far less. Customer engines can win races and championships as both Red Bull and Mclaren have proven.