An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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xpensive
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An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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I was thinking it could be interesting to collect suspicions, evidence and what not on this subject and see where it leads?

Nigel Mansell was always convinced that Lotus favored Elio de Angelis and Ferrari Alain Prost, true or not?
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marcush.
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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Ferrari favoured Alboreto over Berger ,and Berger proved his point with Barnard and Ascanelli during a test when Barnard suddenly decided to give Berger Alboretos car and nobody was allowed to touch the car .Berger was instantly over a second quicker than alboreto when before they always matched in times but Berger had mysteriously low topspeed figures on all tracks...

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Mr Alcatraz
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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Well Williams blatantly favored Nige' over Patrese. I’ve seen several races where Ricardo (here come on let me let you through Nige') Patrese slowing to Iet him through. I find it hysterical. Mansell had more tools, and talent, but when they were at Williams together Patrese knew his role and was quite obedient. He did win a few races where Mansell DNFed or had issues in a race where Patrese couldn’t do anything for him.

Although Patrese got him good in their first race together at Williams :lol:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk6qBAG6xdY[/youtube]
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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I remember the 1978 British GP at Brands, when Ronnie set a pole time on Good Year's woodies and it didn't matter how many sets of stickies Lotus fitted on Mario's car, he still couldn't beat it.
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Trocola
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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Ferrari with Schumacher and Barrichello, Alonso and Massa ("Alonso is faster than you. Can you confirm you understand the message?"), Renault with Alonso and Piquet Jr. (Singapur)...


Trocola

tonmeister
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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McLaren 2007 favoring Hamilton the last part of the year, specially during the last two races. The disparity of Q3 times between Alonso and Hamilton in those two races and compared to how close it was the rest of the year is just fishy. More proof? Ron Dennis in China 2007 ”We were not racing Raikkonen, we were racing Alonso.”

Richard
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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Plenty of incidents from the Fangio era when second drivers gave their car to the lead driver midway through a race.

In todays parlance it would be "Felipe, you are faster than Fernando. Please let him drive your car."

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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And what of this hocus pocus that Roberg is being favoured at Mercedes?
More could have been done.
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gridwalker
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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Favouritism at Williams worked both ways for Mansell : Honda had a strong preference for Piquet during the 1986 season and Mansell suspected that they were hampering his engine performance in order to give Piquet the edge.

Mansell felt that his engines were down on power when compared to Piquet's, as he couldn't match him in the speed traps even when running his turbo at full boost. During one test, Mansell requested that his race engineer swap the engine management chip from his engine with the one from Piquet's (otherwise identical) unit. Suddenly Mansell was matching Piquet's speed and beating him on overall laptime.

Admittedly, this was the engine supplier favouring one driver as opposed to the "team" (or constructor) but it shows that results can be influenced by suppliers without the team's consent.

I would provide a source for this snippet, but it came from a book that I read nearly 20 years ago ... I'm sure someone with strong google-fu will be able to dig up more.
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Red Schneider
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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In the spirit of Gridwalker's post, I read an article somewhere a few years ago about Senna and Prost's time together at McLaren. Someone (might have been Prost or Senna, but can't remember) felt that Honda was subtly tuning the engines to give each driver an edge at certain tracks. I remember a quote from Prost about suddently beating Senna handily at the French GP.

Edit: found the article. http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm

Excerpt:
Alain Prost

"For '89, though, I was worried about Honda. And I think my biggest problem was that I never had the relationship with them that Ayrton did. From the beginning, it was something I never felt I had under control. I wouldn't have cared very much if they'd simply preferred one driver in the team - but the way they handled the situation was very difficult for me, because Senna and I had very different driving styles."

"I never understood why Honda took his side so much. It wasn't that I thought it was a question of the Brazilian sales marked or the French market, or anything like that. It was more a human thing. I worked with Honda again last year - now as a team owner - and it struck me again: I think the Japanese just work differently. In a team, they always favour someone over the rest. I've heard it said about their motorcycle teams as well."

"Let me give you an example. At one point in '88, the last year we were allowed to run turbos, I asked for some specific changes to the engine to suit my driving style and we worked on it for two days at Paul Ricard. At the end of that test I was very happy - but at the next race, one week later, they never put that strategy on my engine."

"Then we went to the French Grand Prix - at Ricard - and suddenly the engine was just as I had wanted! You understand what I'm saying? Ayrton and I raced for two seasons together in the McLaren-Hondas, and at both the French Grands Prix I was on pole position and won the race. Everyone said, 'Oh look, it's Prost in front of his home crowd', and that sort of thing. It was nothing like that; it was just that at those races I had something which enabled me to fight..."

"Understand me, this is nothing against Ayrton, OK? Ayrton was very quick, and in qualifying he was much better than me - much more committed, just as I think I was when I was the younger driver in the team, against Niki (Lauda)."

"Anyway, before the 1989 season I had dinner at the golf club in Geneva with Honda's then chairman, Mr Kawamoto and four other people. And he admitted that I was right in believing that Honda was more for Ayrton than for me."

"He said, 'You want to know why we push Senna so much? Well, I can't be 100 per cent sure.' But one thing he did let me know was that the new generation of engineers working on the engines were in favour of Ayrton, because he was more the samurai, and I was more the computer."

"So, that was an explanation, and I was very happy afterwards, because then at least I knew very well that something was not correct. Part of my problem had been that Ayrton was so bloody quick, it wasn't easy to know how much was that, and how much was Honda helping him. So after this dinner with Mr Kawamoto, I thought, 'Well, at least I'm not stupid - something really was going on, and now I know the situation.'"

Raptor22
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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yip and thats the story.

Much was made of Schumacher being favoured at Ferrari and that was largely true because he was a two time world champ at that time and the best driver Ferrari had the luck of having turning their nuts for a long time. They lapped it up. Irvine was good, fast, and gave great etchnical feedback but his overall attitude to life and his work was his shortfall. He added colour but he was not a Ferrari front man. The Italian public identified with Schumacher more because of his squarely middle class upbringing - son of a brickmaker and himself a mechanic by trade, the type of person yo find all over Italy in small town like Maranello. He was a real son of Maranello. No kidding. He could walk into a restaurant and everything would stop. No one else gets served. His real class was he'd ask the staff to see to the other folk first.

At Benetton he was not favoured initially because he did not want Briattore managing him. But he was lightning quick so the team gravitated toward him rather than Piquet who was becoming difficult to work with - would not turn up at test etc.

At Mercedes its clear Rosberg is the team favoured driver. He never gets a development part. Schumacher does. The reliability in his end of the garage is obvious.

At McLaren Hakkinen was favoured and Ron admitted he had a father/son relationship with Mika. The Mika era was detrimental other drivers careers.

Senna was favoured by Honda over Prost. While PRost was favoured at Renault again and in 1993 because of who he is want he represents to French motorsport.
Jim Clark at Lotus. The relationship between he and Chapman kept others well clear of the title and victory.
Jackie STewart and Ken Tyrell. Even Francois Severt coukld not break JAckies stranglehold on the team unless Jackie said so.
Senna at Lotus is another example. Senna at McLaren

Whats puzzling about the 2010 to 2012 Mercedes situation is that Rosberg has done nothing to earn his position. All the other drivers who have gained favour in their teams have earned it through wins or championships. Rosberg has been helped through his tenure there by the other guy being limited. SO something there stinks to high heaven

Pup
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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Raptor22 wrote:At Mercedes its clear Rosberg is the team favoured driver. He never gets a development part. Schumacher does.
Proving how silly all this is. If your favorite driver gets the newest parts, then they're 'development parts' and therefore the other driver is being favored. But if the team mate gets those parts, then they're 'the latest', and again is being favored.

There's no winning these arguments. I think the height of the absurdity was 2007, when after Monaco the FIA launched a formal investigation against McLaren for favoring Alonso over Hamilton. Then later did the same to see if they were favoring Hamilton over Alonso.

And of course the fans of each will argue to their graves that the other was the favored son.

gridwalker
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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Raptor22 wrote:Prost was favoured at Renault
Really? I know he was the number one during his Williams days (which he undoubtedly deserved against the rookie Hill) but Prost's autobiography is quite explicit about how Renault gave Rene Arnoux preferential treatment during his first stint working with the French marque.
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Raptor22
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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O think you look at it in the context of outcomes.
Its natural for new parts to be on one car first. If that balances out in the results then its fair play.
But if the practice continuously disadvantages one driver while a different hymn is sung by the team then you have to ask yourself if they've stepped over the line.
In 2007 when the inquiry into the Alonso favouritism was launched it immediately brough parity to results and performance. Nothing was found because any inequality was addressed before anything could be found.

Youhave to consider that an FIA investigation is not always going to publish the sordid truth. It will address something that appeases the ticket buying fans. At McLaren it so coincidence that Alonso was favoured while Santander was primary sponsor. Santander is a personal sponsor of Alonso and they want a return on their investment.

At Mercedes it could very well be that Mercede Benz want to appeal to a younger market and havng Rosberg as the more successful driver helps that marketing objective since that market identifies more with Rosberg than they will with Schumacher. Let me remind you that the Mercedes Benz GP budget comes from the marketing budget. They want a return on that which means, Rosberg wins, Schumacher is stopped.
There are a lot of long term and short term factors that play into decisions, strategies and the tactics used to reach this objective. Michae Schumachers reputation means nothing in this scheme of things. Its just a asset to be used and trashed in the interests of the "greater good" and survivability of Mercedes Benz as a brand into the future. That means targeting a younger audience and making them Mercedes drivers sooner and then keeping them. A young race winner and World Champion achieves that fr Merc, Schumacher's success does not. Thats just a dream sold to die hard F1 fans. Merc probably ave no interest in making a Schumacher #8 a reality. It does not fit in with their long term plans.
Take your emotion for the purity of F1 racing out of the picture and you will see the business end of it right in front of you. We've been sold a dummy as F1 fans. IMO Its not racing but predetermined prefered outcomes

Raptor22
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Re: An F1 team favoring one of its drivers?

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gridwalker wrote:
Raptor22 wrote:Prost was favoured at Renault
Really? I know he was the number one during his Williams days (which he undoubtedly deserved against the rookie Hill) but Prost's autobiography is quite explicit about how Renault gave Rene Arnoux preferential treatment during his first stint working with the French marque.
Its been a while since I read Hilton's autobiography on Prost so I may have it the wrong way round there. But I recall Arnoux being annoyed that Prost was the favoured son because he came from a more privileged background while Arnoux had to work his way around karting and F3 and into F1. The mechanics favoured Arnoux more because of this while management favoured Prost more because he was better spoken and good ambassador for the brand.
Prost felt agrieved by this because he felt the mechanics were playing with his car while Arnoux's got special attention.