Refueling + Pirelli = Better racing?

[LHamilton]

Ive been thinking about having refueling again, but with the Pirelli tyres. Wouldnt it be better?

A few drivers have complained about driving with these tyres and I though that introducing refueling again would make everybody in the pitlane happy. Lets say Hamilton would make several stops, but going flatout everytime he goes out and a person like Perez would make just 1 or 2 stops and nurse his tyres till the end. Who would win? I have no idea. But I think that we would see different strategies and better racing. Keep kers and introduce some sort of powerboost. The powerboost would make you go faster, but more likely to blow up your engine and waste fuel. The idea behind the powerboost is to eliminate the turbulent air going behind a car. But instead of just using it on a straight(like you do with the DRS), you could use it everywhere.

I know that refueling is dangerous, but if we could make it in a way that would make it less dangerous, perhaps to lenghten the pitstops. That would decrease the pressure on everybody involved and a safe release would might happend. More likely atleast.

I kinda miss the times when you see a driver really pushing in a race, more than just a stint or so. I think everybody inside F1 and as a spectator would like it aswell.

There are perhaps some flaws to this, but im sure it can be fixed.

Discuss! Would you find it intresting?

Sorry for my english =D

[raymondu999]

For 2012 and 2011 tyres, refuelling would tip the balance heavily in the favor of those more-stopping. We've seen this year that many times there are 2 strategies that are very close, because the more-stopper has fresher tyres. Add in less fuel for them, and then that would mean they have fresher tyres, AND less fuel.

Also, strategy then becomes scripted. Drivers cannot make a decision on the fly to switch strategies, providing really only one "quickest" strategy that they all will follow, and you'll probably end up with more of a procession than you do now.

[razorbum]

For 2012 and 2011 tyres, refuelling would tip the balance heavily in the favor of those more-stopping. We've seen this year that many times there are 2 strategies that are very close, because the more-stopper has fresher tyres. Add in less fuel for them, and then that would mean they have fresher tyres, AND less fuel.

Also, strategy then becomes scripted. Drivers cannot make a decision on the fly to switch strategies, providing really only one "quickest" strategy that they all will follow, and you'll probably end up with more of a procession than you do now.

My 2 cents. I like the current tires to be honest.

How about allowing refuelling, but only one refuel per car for the race. There should also be bigger tire differences every race; Supersoft-Medium/Soft-Hard.

This would give rise to more combination of strategies depending on the car/driver/team no?

[raymondu999]

The issue with a bigger gap between compounds is that then, you bring rise to the issue where a fresh set of the harder tyre is only as quick, or not even is as quick, as a worn-down set of the softer tyre, and in effect, you make that harder tyre the "unwanted child." Remember all those races last year where teams just wanted to minimise the use of the hard tyres?

[razorbum]

Mmmm. I must admit I'm a new fan to F1 this season, so I'm not very aware of the tires problem last year.

But if it's not as quick but it can last much longer, would there be this problem?

Imagine running the whole race on a medium, then come in pit during the last 15 laps to change to supersoft while those who ran supersoft earlier struggles. Idk maybe I'm not that knowledgeable.

I wish more people would understand the beautiful sport that's Formula 1 though!

[raymondu999]

Yeah last year the thing was if you put the hards on in the middle of the race then you were nowhere. Mark Webber started on the hards in China 2011, and he was getting passed left right and center. He was passed even by a Sauber on the opening lap. If you want to put it into context, last year's Sauber wasn't as competitive as this year's Force India.

The thing is putting the hard tyres on meant that you couldn't afford a single mistake. Last year we saw this in Abu Dhabi. Massa and Webber went for a pitstop at around the same time, but Webber went for the softer tyres and Felipe the harder tyres. Massa went to the end, as did Webber. Webber made his pitstop and still came out ahead of Massa. Massa spun during that stint, but even before the spin he wasn't even within a pitstop of Webber.

Last year in Barcelona Button had a 3-stop race and Alonso/Webber had 4 stops. After Alonso/Webber's 3rd stops, the 1st time they went onto the hard tyres, Button was on the softs after his 2nd stop. Button, even though he had to manage the tyres to make the strategy work, and he was on hell-old tyres, sliced through Webber/Alonso like a hot knife through butter.

[razorbum]

Mmm that's interesting. Then I guess that's too much performance difference.

Is there a great difference between bridgestone and pirelli, and how big is the diff?

[raymondu999]

Both were built for different purposes, and had different strengths and weaknesses. Where do you want to start? lol

[razorbum]

Ok that was too vague question. Forget that I asked. No point looking at past season tires anyway. I'm looking forward to the new hard tires for the coming silverstone race.

[bhall]

Mark Webber started on the hards in China 2011, and he was getting passed left right and center. He was passed even by a Sauber on the opening lap. If you want to put it into context, last year's Sauber wasn't as competitive as this year's Force India.

Is this the same 2011 Chinese Grand Prix in which Webber started 18th and ended up on the podium? If so, I'd say his overall tire strategy worked pretty well, if you ask me.

I also think it's a mistake to compare Webber and Massa at Abu Dhabi. By every metric, the RB7 was light-years ahead of the 150.

EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say here is that a wider range between tire compounds would have the exact opposite effect to the one you've described.

[raymondu999]

Is this the same 2011 Chinese Grand Prix in which Webber started 18th and ended up on the podium? If so, I'd say his overall tire strategy worked pretty well, if you ask me.

One and the same. My point was that in 2011 the hard tyre was an unwanted child. Webber's strategy was an option because it removed part of his disadvantage of being out of position, and allowed him to pit out-of-cycle from the others. But it still isn't an ideal selection. People were putting it on just for regulations' sake.

I also think it's a mistake to compare Webber and Massa at Abu Dhabi. By every metric, the RB7 was light-years ahead of the 150.

Mark Webber doesn't have a history of very good race pace at Abu Dhabi too, let's not forget.

My point was that too wide a gap would mean that old options would be quicker than fresh primes - and potentially narrow strategies down, as people want to reduce the mileage on the unloved tyre. Let's not forget what Pirelli said last year - unless it was a 4-stop race, every race weekend has produced 24 brand new sets of the prime tyre, because no one wanted to put the prime on. One set was used in Q1, 1 was used for the race prime stint.

[bhall]

The harder tires were avoided because they didn't have enough added durability to offset the speed inherent to softer compounds. That would likely not be the case if the harder tire became the much harder tire.

But, it probably wouldn't change much, because teams would quickly merge toward the overall fastest strategy.

[razorbum]

Always the same logic, just as the racing lines and everything else for the fastest lap times and best overall race for the cars. Would love to see more extreme battles to fight for lines. That would be great.

[bhall]

I dunno. Given the characteristics of the season thus far, I think anyone left wanting more action probably can't be pleased.

[razorbum]

I dunno. Given the characteristics of the season thus far, I think anyone left wanting more action probably can't be pleased.

Ah yes. I'm thoroughly enjoying the current season and no complaints especially the Valencia race. No complaints there at all. I was just commenting in a general sense.

Hopefully they can keep up this level of excitement, or somewhere close. Can't be asking too much can we?