RRA and Wind Tunnels

[alogoc]

Ferrari says wind tunnel CFD and track data match but sometimes updates dont work any way and it confuses them

[raymondu999]

Ferrari says wind tunnel CFD and track data match but sometimes updates dont work any way and it confuses them

Is that the Maranello wind tunnel? Aren't they still banking on Cologne's WT facilities? Where did they say this?

[rodi]

Ferrari says wind tunnel CFD and track data match but sometimes updates dont work any way and it confuses them

Is that the Maranello wind tunnel? Aren't they still banking on Cologne's WT facilities? Where did they say this?

yes, they are. And that facility gives other performance numbers....correlation is never an easy issue with aerodynamics.
rodibasso

[alogoc]

Ferrari says wind tunnel CFD and track data match but sometimes updates dont work any way and it confuses them

Is that the Maranello wind tunnel? Aren't they still banking on Cologne's WT facilities? Where did they say this?

When i come home i will find link,it di monte who said it

[raymondu999]

yes, they are. And that facility gives other performance numbers....correlation is never an easy issue with aerodynamics.
rodibasso

It never is - with scale models, air has less time to compress/expand/cool/heat etc until it hits the next aerodynamic conditioner.'

When i come home i will find link,it di monte who said it

Cheers mate - I await the link

[Kiril Varbanov]

It never is - with scale models, air has less time to compress/expand/cool/heat etc until it hits the next aerodynamic conditioner.'

This is why Reynolds number exists, still, matching the correct coefficients isn't really easy.
A sample data sheet from wind tunnel should have the number of runs as rows (different configurations) and forces as columns. Then, we may have another sheet with coefficients, too. In fact, I have couple of samples, but on hard copies, I may try to find time and transfer them into electronic variant.

Cheers mate - I await the link

Here's the link - MARCA, original source Gazzetta Delo Sport.

[raymondu999]

It never is - with scale models, air has less time to compress/expand/cool/heat etc until it hits the next aerodynamic conditioner.'

This is why Reynolds number exists, still, matching the correct coefficients isn't really easy

Yeah - but I think perhaps it's some other issue other than scaling the coefficients - Otherwise their issues wouldn't be THIS bad...

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Yeah - but I think perhaps it's some other issue other than scaling the coefficients - Otherwise their issues wouldn't be THIS bad...

Yeah I don't think that scaling coefficients is necessarily the problem, while difficult it's not impossible to get on top of. There's another inherent problem with the tunnel they can't seem to address nor seem to have the same problems when using the Toyota tunnel. It needs to be demolished and have a new one built. But I'm not sure under the current RRA if they can spend that much money..

The team needs to get to work in Cologne and get the F2012 updates going. The WDC will be lost if the team can't bring fruitful updates to the car.

[raymondu999]

But I'm not sure under the current RRA if they can spend that much money..

Honest question - why?

I didn't realise that... oh... you know... if they built a wind tunnel for their latest model Ferrari, and just so happens built it so state-of-the-art that they could use it on their F1 program... you know... the cost of building it was absorbed into their roadcar division

[Crucial_Xtreme]

But I'm not sure under the current RRA if they can spend that much money..

Honest question - why?

I didn't realise that... oh... you know... if they built a wind tunnel for their latest model Ferrari, and just so happens built it so state-of-the-art that they could use it on their F1 program... you know... the cost of building it was absorbed into their roadcar division

LOL! Good idea mate. But I think the other teams would have a fit. I was under the impression because of the RRA, they couldn't drop that much money to build a new tunnel. They're only supposed to spend a set amount of money each year towards F1(according to RRA) and I thought if they spent the 300+ million on a new tunnel they would be in violation. Obviously I could be dead wrong here.

[hardingfv32]

... I thought if they spent the 300+ million on a new tunnel they would be in violation.

That is probably not the case, as new teams need to spend a lot to get the same level of assets as existing teams.

Brian

[superdread]

Could it be that the amortisation rates are counted towards the RRA?
That would mean that a 30M wind tunnel (just as an example) can be written of over 10 years as 3M (+running cost) every year.

[Kiril Varbanov]

Yeah - but I think perhaps it's some other issue other than scaling the coefficients - Otherwise their issues wouldn't be THIS bad...

Agreed. Instead of building a new one (rough estimated cost 30 to 50 million), they can just outsource - perhaps it would be cheaper. There are tons of tunnels around Europe, especially in UK.

This data correlation issue is being thrown around for almost two years now, so let's see if they will really "fix it" this winter.
While the car itself was able to make up the deficit of around 1.5 seconds from the start of the season, the recent normal development updates weren't that much successful.

[alogoc]

Yeah - but I think perhaps it's some other issue other than scaling the coefficients - Otherwise their issues wouldn't be THIS bad...

Agreed. Instead of building a new one (rough estimated cost 30 to 50 million), they can just outsource - perhaps it would be cheaper. There are tons of tunnels around Europe, especially in UK.

This data correlation issue is being thrown around for almost two years now, so let's see if they will really "fix it" this winter.
While the car itself was able to make up the deficit of around 1.5 seconds from the start of the season, the recent normal development updates weren't that much successful.

They should build a new one! end of philosophizing!

[raymondu999]

They should build a new one! end of philosophizing!

Yes but that's what we were sort of discussing - and Crucial was saying it might be an RRA violation.