Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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dan
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Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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quote from here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103433
"I then picked up some stray run-off Astroturf, which tangled itself around my sideboard winglet for the final few laps. It stalled the diffuser"

My understanding of this stuff is pretty basic - I'm just interested if someone can explain how the astroturf interupting the flow round the sidepods above the floor would have the effect to stall the diffuser?

beelsebob
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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dan wrote:quote from here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103433
"I then picked up some stray run-off Astroturf, which tangled itself around my sideboard winglet for the final few laps. It stalled the diffuser"

My understanding of this stuff is pretty basic - I'm just interested if someone can explain how the astroturf interupting the flow round the sidepods above the floor would have the effect to stall the diffuser?
Because the diffuser relies pretty heavily on being fed good quality air, both over its top, and under its bottom... A large chunk of stuff flapping about down the side of the car destroying those air flow patterns is going to do all kinds of nasty stuff to the air flow patterns above the car... More so, if it creates a low pressure zone above the car, that'll suck air around the side of the floor and disturb the air under the car too.

astracrazy
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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well the air going around the sidepods will be going to the back of the car to the diffuser. If this is disturbed and dirty air goes there it will be having a negative effect.

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turbof1
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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With flow heavily disrupted above the diffuser, the high pressure area above the diffuser als dissapears or is severely weakened. A difuser works by having low pressure beneath it and high pressure above it, but air volume has been hugely reduced and so there is less air to "press" on the diffuser.
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dan
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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So basically with an F1 diffuser the under floor flow on its own is not enough for it to work as say a diffuser on a GT car?

The expansion is so extreme without a flow over the top (under the beam wing etc) the diffuser stalls?

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turbof1
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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dan wrote:So basically with an F1 diffuser the under floor flow on its own is not enough for it to work as say a diffuser on a GT car?

The expansion is so extreme without a flow over the top (under the beam wing etc) the diffuser stalls?
The diffuser will still produce downforce I think, but far less. The same would happen with a gt car of you disturb airflow above the flat part bodywork at the back, which does pressure on top of the diffuser.
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godlameroso
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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I don't know if anyone noticed but he was driving over the hanging astroturf while he was cornering as well. I'm sure that didn't help traction. I hope the team learned something valuable from this, I expect Hamilton to do well in India.
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mep
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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Couple decades ago they would have said it worked as a seal, or sliding skirt.
Now they say it stalls the diffusor.

myurr
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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godlameroso wrote:I don't know if anyone noticed but he was driving over the hanging astroturf while he was cornering as well. I'm sure that didn't help traction. I hope the team learned something valuable from this, I expect Hamilton to do well in India.
Yeah I thought I saw that too. God knows how he kept the pace up in that car with a broken rear suspension and that astroturf hanging off the side.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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turbof1 wrote:With flow heavily disrupted above the diffuser, the high pressure area above the diffuser als dissapears or is severely weakened. A difuser works by having low pressure beneath it and high pressure above it, but air volume has been hugely reduced and so there is less air to "press" on the diffuser.
Actually a diffuser's job is to slow air down so that it exits the volume between the floor and ground as efficiently as possible. The whole point of getting air to flow around the sidepods and over the diffuser's top surface is to ensure that the velocity of the air above and below the diffuser at the trailing edge of the diffuser is similar. The diffuser doesn't create downforce, it helps other parts of the car create downforce (noteably the leading edge of the floor and the kink line where the diffuser joins the floor).
Whilst there will be some "Newtonian downforce" from the air above the diffuser hitting the diffuser's upper surface, the main downforce isn't produced by the diffuser itself.

In extremis, if the pressure above the diffuser is a lot higher than the pressure below (as you suggest), the air will want to turn around the diffuser trailing edge and flow back in to the low pressure region below. This is not good. By making the pressure above and below the trailing edge equal (or even slightly lower above), the flow will just carry on behind the trailing edge and then interact with the flow from the beam wing etc.
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dan
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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Just_a_fan wrote: In extremis, if the pressure above the diffuser is a lot higher than the pressure below (as you suggest), the air will want to turn around the diffuser trailing edge and flow back in to the low pressure region below. This is not good. By making the pressure above and below the trailing edge equal (or even slightly lower above), the flow will just carry on behind the trailing edge and then interact with the flow from the beam wing etc.
so the flow from under the beam wing being interupted would cause the diffuser to stall?
I'm just having a hard time understanding how the above floor flow would have such a profound effect on the diffuser

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mclaren777
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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Why can't I find any good pictures of the turf on his car?

Just_a_fan
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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strad
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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He should have been black flagged. I think if it had been some lesser team/driver they would have been.
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beelsebob
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Re: Hamilton astroturf incident - stalling diffuser?

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strad wrote:He should have been black flagged. I think if it had been some lesser team/driver they would have been.
Huh? Why black flagged? I'm guessing you mean black and orange flagged. And frankly, I don't see what's dangerous here – one driver had already hit it, and it had done exactly 0 damage, so clearly it wasn't an issue if it flew off.