Data acquisition history in motorsports

Breaking news, useful data or technical highlights or vehicles that are not meant to race. You can post commercial vehicle news or developments here.
Please post topics on racing variants in "other racing categories".
Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

I would like to gather here some info about Data acquisition history in motorsports. Companies who started developing, using or selling comercially, in wich series (undoubtedly F1) and anything else related.

Some of the more known brands I know and have worked with are Stack, Aim, Pi, Motec, Racepack, Performance/video Box, etc.

Stack, for example, says:
The first commercial data-logging system to be run during Formula 1 and Indycar races.
year1987


http://www.stackltd.com/stack_history.html
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

TAG and Magneti Marelli would come to mind, the former before being brought into Mclaren Electronics (or so I believe?)
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

I recently read in Racecar engineering about ricardo divila who happened to be TD with Fittipaldis Formula 1 venture as a constructor that they were one of the firsts to use a IBM computor in the pits...I try to find the article...

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

Jersey Tom wrote:TAG and Magneti Marelli would come to mind, the former before being brought into Mclaren Electronics (or so I believe?)
How could I forget TAG and Magnetti Marelli? :oops:

Maybe because I have never worked with those two!
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

from Paul Van Valkenburgh:
Anyone with enough time can design a race car on their computer, or simulate one on their computer. But the greatest excitement comes from actually coupling the computer up with a real race car to take real data on a real track. Race car development usually requires flexible general-purpose equipment, in the number of channels, types of transducers, sampling intervals, and total capacity. Electronic race car data acquisition started in the late 60's, although it was limited to analog tape recording systems, as described in my first book, "Chevrolet -- Racing?"
Computerized data recording is common in engineering. There are dozens of such systems available; dedicated multi-user, multi-tasking systems that can even use the analysed data to automatically control subsequent test procedures. On a smaller scale, anyone with a PC can gradually build their own small system out of commercial modular components such as a plug-in board and general purpose off-the-shelf data analysis software. However, the best of these are seldom adequate for the in-the-field race car requirements of vibration, noise, and heat resistance, and cost, portability, and size restrictions, the reason for development of dedicated race systems.
BMW may have been the first with digital race data-taking, in their engine development for Brabham in 1983. Working with the Bosch computer-controlled injection system, they already had digitized engine signals such as rpm, temperatures, and pressures. So it required little extra electronics to temporarily store a sequence of such figures in an onboard data buffer. When I first saw the system, they had a separate circuit board in the shielded engine control module, with a 16K RAM that could store up to 1000 data points from each of 16 channels - which seems amusingly primitive today. Then in the pits they would download the data for analysis. As it was primarily an engine project, however, they probably didn't use the system for much chassis development.
About the same time, Honda racing engineers asked me to come in and discuss systems that might be useful in their new F1 activity. After a two hour monolog on my part, they asked some questions that indicated they knew a lot more than they were telling. As it turned out, they were about to sign with the Williams Team, where Frank Dirney was already using a 4-channel tape recorder on his cars to gather data for later computer analysis.

Eventually, Williams/Honda made a deal to share computer technology with an American CART team headed by Ian Reed, a former March engineer with a strong background in computer applications to simulation and design. So Reed brought in a hardware expert, Kurt Borman, who spent a couple of years developing a data-taking and analysis system, later marketed as the Motech. It started with 4 channels, taking data at 1/2 second intervals, analyzing them on an Apple, and worked up to a portable computer, analyzing at least eight channels simultaneously.

Although drag racing seems like a low-tech sport which contributes little to circuit racing, it's interesting to note that their data recording requirements may be even more demanding, where things happen so fast -- sub-5-second runs over 300 mph -- that only a computer can handle them. As early as the 1983 season, the Kenny Bernstein team was developing a system that could take 32 channels of data at 100 samples per second. Eventually Bernstein's engineers came up with a simpler and more marketable system called Racepak, which will be described later.

In 1985, Harry Gant's NASCAR Chevrolet had an extremely sophisticated telemetry system. The onboard data acquisition system was a 40-pound box that could continuously monitor 24 different sensors at a rate of 55 samples per second. The data was then transmitted to a receiving and analysis console via a 4-watt transmitter, and a 30-foot receiving antenna. However, at the end of that season, NASCAR officials became wary of such systems actually being used to monitor a car during a race, and outlawed them.

Incidentally, data telemetry will not be covered in great detail here, even though it sounds exotic and is commonly used in Formula One and CART teams. My own experience with it convinced me that it was seldom worth its development and maintenance problems unless there was someone on it full-time. When you get down to reality, not that many applications outside of engine development and "maybe" oversteer/understeer balance demand instantaneous real-time observation of data while the car is on the track.

Over the last couple of decades, computerized DAS has evolved along with advancing computer technology, driven by many overlapping commercial interests: (a) Factory engine development engineers need faster and more precise control systems, especially in telemetry, and they can afford the best. (b) Chassis development engineers can count on the DAS manufacturers to continually provide them with just a little more capabilities that they can apply. (c) The dash gauge and instrument manufacturers increase their product sophistication by incorporating memory that can also be downloaded for later analysis.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
641
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

Tyrell were making a big splash in 1977 or earlier? about their Goodyear-funded ? data-logging that would boost design etc

DaveW
DaveW
239
Joined: 14 Apr 2009, 12:27

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

We (Flight Systems & Measurement Laboratories) at Cranfield Institute of Technology (later Cranfield University) were asked in 1975 to instrument a F1 car by Team Lotus. We instrumented a "Data Car" for the exercise and installed a bespoke digital measurement system. The system was battery powered (the car electronic system of the time was not thought to be sufficiently stable) and recorded a 24 channel sampled data stream on a cassette recorder in PCM format at a frame rate of 10 Hz.

Recordings were recovered to a digital signal processing computer, also developed by FSML, using a software decoder, and was analyzed on the same computer. Despite the low frame rate, the system had some interesting features and was able, for example, to estimate both lift and drag coefficients of the vehicle.

The system continued to be used (with various refinements) from 1976 until 1983, when the recorder replaced by a telemetry system, transmitting over the "Citizen's Band" audio channel.

autogyro
autogyro
53
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 15:03

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

Didnt the Lotus/Cranfield system use a pitot tube for airspeed and a sensor to measure suspension deflection Dave?
I remember discusing methods to measure ground effects developments with Tony Rudd over this period.
There were plans to use sensors in real time to alter the configuration of GE components.
We used sensors and tape recorders in some experiments on transmission shifting at around this time at my company.
The idea was to produce a fully automatic powertrain the operation of which would be mainly from sensor input with much simpler driver control.
Maybe we had a first in data login which would be around 1974, although not in an F1 car actualy racing.

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

Thank you guys, thats interesting and must be some of the firsts works in the subject.

Can you tell us Dave what were the 24 channels recording? And wich sensors did you use?
I guess the work of processing and analising the data recorded with that kind of software and computer was an effort of its own.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

User avatar
tarzoon
0
Joined: 17 May 2006, 19:53
Location: White and blue football club

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

Ross Brawn developed the first telemetry system around while working at Williams. I've see it once, but can't help you much more

Sombrero
Sombrero
126
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 20:18

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

I remember the old joke about the data log system of the 008 who told Maurice Philippe to make a copy of the Lotus 79...
More seriously, it looks like Team Tyrrell started already in 1977 with the P34/2.

Image

Karl Kempf and Jonathan Greaves work on Ronnie Peterson’s 6 wheel P34 Tyrrell in 1977. The aluminium box contains the first data logging system in F1.

Image

Karl Kempf and Derek Gardner analise the data in the back of the transporter.

More on http://jonathangreaves.com/index.htm

DaveW
DaveW
239
Joined: 14 Apr 2009, 12:27

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

autogyro wrote:Didnt the Lotus/Cranfield system use a pitot tube for airspeed and a sensor to measure suspension deflection Dave?
It did, amongst other things.
Belatti wrote:Can you tell us Dave what were the 24 channels recording? And wich sensors did you use?
I guess the work of processing and analising the data recorded with that kind of software and computer was an effort of its own.
Channels were (if a recall correctly), 4x strut loads (our manufacture), 4x strut positions (LVDT's), 4x wheel speeds (inductive), 4x spares (for future use), 2x drive shaft torque sensors (SaRo), Lat & Long acceleration (force balance), 1x rack position (LVDT), Brake Pressure (strain gauge), RPM (inductive) & Dynamic Pressure (strain gauge).

Data recording was an issue. Instrumentation recorders at the time were large & heavy and flash memory hadn't been invented. Small cassette recorders were available with a voice bandwidth of around 10 KHz (at a push), which made PCM a good option, but we did have to develop a decode algorithm that could handle relatively fast changes in vibration-induced tape speed. Ultimately, pocket cassette recorders with adequate performance became available, & we then used the driver as a vibration isolator.

Interestingly, it looks as though Karl Kempf used a similar solution. If my memory serves, he was responsible for an active front camber control system trialed on the Tyrrell.

autogyro
autogyro
53
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 15:03

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

I remember talking to Derek Gardner about the subject when he was MD of Borg Warner Letchworth.
I went to see him about the 25 speed epicyclic gearbox we were working on.
I think Tyrell had the first F1 data logger.
Many were looking at the potential at that time so I may be wrong.

Sombrero
Sombrero
126
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 20:18

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

More about the active camber control of the Tyrrell 008 by Gene Varnier

Another interesting well kept "secret" feature designed into the 008 was active camber control. This again was Maurice's idea and was a concept he prototyped on his Mk3 Cortina road car ! At that stage the camber was initially controlled via a pendulum controlled spool valve, front and rear. The response time was acceptable for a road car, but deemed too slow for a racing application. This was when MOOG servo valves first appeared on the motor racing scene, to solve the response problem.

As one of my areas of design responsibility on the Tyrrells was suspension (front and rear), I had to do the installation design of the system for the 008.

If you have a chance to see a 008 at a historic meeting, or museum, you will perhaps then understand why the front and rear top wishbones were not directly mounted to the chassis and rear frame.

As the racing season progressed, the active camber project was also put on hold. It was resurrected for the 009 car, but due to the suspension layout, the control was done via links to the outboard of the bottom wishbones....unfortunately, much more heavily loaded.

This layout was tested by Didier Pironi at the June 1979 Silverstone tyre test. The system worked fine, but as the Goodyear cross-ply tyres of that era were heavily cambered in profile, the lap times with and without the system operating were identical. So, due to the weight penalty and no performance gain, it was decided to remove the system from the car.

I hope the above isn't too confusing or boring, but it's good to give Maurice some credit for some of the interesting engineering concepts he investigated that never " saw the light of day "

TzeiTzei
TzeiTzei
5
Joined: 09 Mar 2011, 21:19

Re: Data acquisition history in motorsports

Post

I remember reading a long time ago that Renault stored their data on a floppy disk around 1984/85. They didnt have telemetry.