The biggest slime ball in F1

[Spacepace]

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 98236.html

"Mark knows what we expect of him," Marko told Sport Bild. "For four years, Vettel and Webber have driven together in our team. Sebastian was runner-up once and champion three times. The statistic speaks for itself. There is no reason to think the balance of power will change."
I can't help but feel from reading things Marko says about Webber he has a lot to do with the so called "reliability" issues Webber has encountered this year and others, to benefit Vettel. Marko is really only there to appease the share holders of Red Bull; sorry Webber your not part of the superior race (Austrian) so you will never be champion. I wonder after Vettel they will replace him with another German or Austrain driver.

P.S. not trying to start a thread about race and have nothing against Austrains just trying to convey the way the team seem to think.

[wesley123]

[strike]I always thought Webber was Australian? =S[/strike]

EDIT: I haven't said anything

[Hail22]

I always thought Webber was Australian? =S

I believe he is referring to Helmut Marko, Dietrich (spelling) etc. Who are in-fact born in Austria.

[Blue fellow]

I don't see anything wrong with what was said in that link. Why would you expect anything different next year? Vettel won another Championship, why should all of a suddenly they be on equal standing? Vettel being German has nothing to do with him being number one. The fact that he got 3 world titles has more to do with it.

Teams have number ones and number twos, and in my mind, Red Bull isn't the most extreme example of this right now either. Don't get me wrong though. I don't like that guy one bit, but he didn't say anything wrong here, maybe unnessecary, but not wrong.

[Cam]

This is a non-issue. Mark is big enough and ugly enough to take care of himself and he knows what the state of play is at Red Bull. Red Bull needed Mark, otherwise he'd be at Ferrari right now. Mark might not bring a WDC, but he brings a world of experience, grit and pace - something Red Bull haven't overlooked. Remember, Vettel is only quicker than Webber in a 'vettel' customised car - when the car is not to his liking, Webber is quicker. Oh so easy we forget this fact. RB haven't.

[Bazza]

Red Bull needed Mark, otherwise he'd be at Ferrari right now.

Red Bull feared Mark, otherwise he'd be at Ferrari right now.

After RB's extremely lumpy start to the year Mark's 2 wins at Monaco and Silverstone meant he was the one guy capable of harassing Alonso in his Ferrari. Remember at that time Filipe's 2013 was basically dogmeat, and Alonso's buddy Webber was up for grabs.

Without someone to "mind the gap" at RB, the following year represented a world of hurt. Once signing him though, there wasn't much reason left to not just go develop 100% for Vettel.


Having said that, god only knows why Webber didn't sign for Ferrari, or at the very least sign for Ferrari and just not tell Red Bull until much, much later. Two wins isn't leverage when there's still ten races left. Sure the F2012 sucked, but he's smart enough to know that it only takes 2 years at most before Ferrari gets within a race win of the championship (2008, 2010, 2012).

[jdlive]

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 98236.html

"Mark knows what we expect of him," Marko told Sport Bild. "For four years, Vettel and Webber have driven together in our team. Sebastian was runner-up once and champion three times. The statistic speaks for itself. There is no reason to think the balance of power will change."
I can't help but feel from reading things Marko says about Webber he has a lot to do with the so called "reliability" issues Webber has encountered this year and others, to benefit Vettel. Marko is really only there to appease the share holders of Red Bull; sorry Webber your not part of the superior race (Austrian) so you will never be champion. I wonder after Vettel they will replace him with another German or Austrain driver.

P.S. not trying to start a thread about race and have nothing against Austrains just trying to convey the way the team seem to think.

Come on, they've let Webber race Vettel much more than any other top team has ever let their "2nd driver" race their first.

Things like we saw in Interlagos 2012, we would never have seen with an Alonso, Schumacher, ... team mate.

If anything, they have given and continue to give Webber too much freedom.

[jdlive]

This is a non-issue. Mark is big enough and ugly enough to take care of himself and he knows what the state of play is at Red Bull. Red Bull needed Mark, otherwise he'd be at Ferrari right now. Mark might not bring a WDC, but he brings a world of experience, grit and pace - something Red Bull haven't overlooked. Remember, Vettel is only quicker than Webber in a 'vettel' customised car - when the car is not to his liking, Webber is quicker. Oh so easy we forget this fact. RB haven't.

Complete BS (and then I get negative rep here). If Webber were the quicker one on average, he would be the number 1 driver.

[LionKing]

This is a non-issue. Mark is big enough and ugly enough to take care of himself and he knows what the state of play is at Red Bull. Red Bull needed Mark, otherwise he'd be at Ferrari right now. Mark might not bring a WDC, but he brings a world of experience, grit and pace - something Red Bull haven't overlooked. Remember, Vettel is only quicker than Webber in a 'vettel' customised car - when the car is not to his liking, Webber is quicker. Oh so easy we forget this fact. RB haven't.

Vettel has been beating than Webber ever since he joined Red Bull! He joined RBR at 2009 when Webber was already there and he was faster form get go. What Marko is saying is just logical. I don't expect that to change next year either.

Webber gets outraced by Vettel like 16 races of 20 in a season. Why would that change next year? Same as Alonso and Massa. Massa will be beaten by a good margin next year too...

[Cam]

The evidence is there. You only have to look at early 2012 and all of 2011. The Red Bull is designed to Vettels driving, not Webbers. Heck, even Horner admits as much.

The car plays a HUGE part in who out races who. The F2012 is a great example. Massa slapped Alonso late in 2012, so much so they had him hold position on track and break seals on a gearbox!

Vettel will outrace Webber next year, simply because the car is designed in his favour.

[LionKing]

The evidence is there. You only have to look at early 2012 and all of 2011. The Red Bull is designed to Vettels driving, not Webbers. Heck, even Horner admits as much.

The car plays a HUGE part in who out races who. The F2012 is a great example. Massa slapped Alonso late in 2012, so much so they had him hold position on track and break seals on a gearbox!

Vettel will outrace Webber next year, simply because the car is designed in his favour.

There is no evidence. As I said Vettel did not start beating Webber in 2011, he came to Webber's team and start beating him. Vettel beat him pre double diffuser, post DD, pre EBD post EBD, etc. It doesn't matter. The talent diffential between Vettel and Webber is even more evident in the wet...

Adrian Newey is a guy who didn't even compromise his design to put a full power KERS. Designers strive just to achieve the fastest car under the given regulations. Vettel even preferred to race an earlier spec car in China. Did Red bull continue their development on this path? No. Vettel saw that car is indeed slower than the newer one and moved on...

[jdlive]

Doesn't it make sense to develop the car to your fastest/best driver's liking?

[LionKing]

Doesn't it make sense to develop the car to your fastest/best driver's liking?

I think that would be just by product of designing the best/fastest car you can. It should be up to the drivers to achieve the potential of the car. The teams just shouldn't do the reverse. I.e end of with having a slower car so that the slower drive can also drive it. For instance giving Hamilton a slower car overall so that Button can also drive it comfortably.

Vettel 1.30.0 Webber 1.30.5 like RB7
Vettel 1.30.15 Webber 1.30.30 comprimise the faster driver to give Webber his fastest option.
Vettel 1.30.70 Webber 1.30.6 like RB8 at the start of 2012. They qualified 0.75 second off McLaren and Webber edged Vettel in qualy although he was slower in races.

In this stupid hypothetical example with laptimes Which car we you choose?

[Spacepace]

There was times in the past Webber was beating Vettel on points and on pure pace(2010 and early this year). Then suddenly the cars direction in development changes and Vettel is out pacing Webber. Vettel likes a car he can throw around but not having to worry about the rear end going out. My other point was how many times his Kers miraculously failed in qualifying and gearboxes were failing. My point here is Marko is only their to give Vettel the biggest advantage he can. In doing so he makes it very hard to like Vettel when he defends him like he's his mother.

The only time you see a smile out of these old grouch is when Vettel gets pole or is on the podium. I would very much appreciate it if FOM would just not film this idiot.

[LionKing]

There was times in the past Webber was beating Vettel on points and on pure pace(2010 and early this year). Then suddenly the cars direction in development changes and Vettel is out pacing Webber. Vettel likes a car he can throw around but not having to worry about the rear end going out. My other point was how many times his Kers miraculously failed in qualifying and gearboxes were failing. My point here is Marko is only their to give Vettel the biggest advantage he can. In doing so he makes it very hard to like Vettel when he defends him like he's his mother.

The only time you see a smile out of these old grouch is when Vettel gets pole or is on the podium. I would very much appreciate it if FOM would just not film this idiot.

Even when the car was bad at the beginning of 2012, Vettel was often the faster driver in races. He was the one who took the fight to McLaren in Austalia (first podium of RBR), faster at wet Malaysia, first win of RBR at Bahrain, etc. Webber did relatively better in qualy than his previous performance. In first half of 2012 it was 5-5 in qualy, much better than 4-1 ratio he has been cumulatively outqualified before.

In 2010 Webber was thorughly outraced apart from a few races too. Only reliability issues prevented Vettel making a hat trick of the first three races. As I said Vettel has been better than Webber pre DD-post DD, pre EBD, post EBD.

Recap of 2010. There were 19 races in 2010:
Vettel and Webber have both finished together in 14 of 19 races. Vettel has beaten Webber in 10 of those and Webber in 4. One of those 4 races was Hungary, when Vettel got a penalty under SF trying to help his teammate. Webber won the race and Vettel finished 3rd there. Webber was genuinely better than Vettel in Spain and Monaco, Silverstone...

5 remaining races:
Korea 2010 : Vettel retires from lead with engine failure close to the end of the race. Webber doesn't last long in wet and crashes at the beginn...
Australia 2010: Vettel DNFs with mechanical problem from the lead.
Valencia 2010: Vettel wins while Webber crashes into Kovalainen while he was out of point scoring positions.
Turkey 2010. Vettel DNFs while passing Webber and Webber finishes 3rd.
Spa 2010: Vettel crashes into Button. As usual he was in front of Webber at that time.

Webber gets his 3-4 races in a season over Vettel, usually his favorite tracks. That is about as good as he can do...