Getting around testing restrictions?

[MIKEY_!]

While there are restrictions on testing with recent cars, 3 year old cars have unlimited testing (I think). In 2014 these won't be as much help as the cars will be quite different in terms of power delivery and cooling (apparently).
Here's the idea:
What's to stop teams building cars that are very similar to their real F1 car and testing that privately? The benefits are obvious so where in the regs is this prevented?

[wesley123]

Cause the gains are not so obvious. What would be the advantage of testing a car that isnt their F1 car? Not to mention the huge costs that come with it.

[Slife]

Has the testing ban actually reduced costs, or are teams still spending lots of $$ for marginal gains ?

[MOWOG]

My guess is that it has greatly reduced testing costs.

And greatly increased simulator/wind tunnel/CAD costs.

Them that have the money to spend are gonna spend it, regardless of anything Bernie and the FIA do or say.

As the old expression goes: "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to spend?"

[natehall]

Whats to stop them making a perfect replica of the F1 car, as these things evovle throughough the year

quite simply, it is just an unregistered car they could then drive on any private track...

[Cam]

The whole argument for Pirelli is moot anyway - the cars evolve over a season - so Pirelli would have to have an evolving test car as well. Anything Pirelli make - the teams are going to conquer, just as 2012 proved. So in Pirelli's head, they want 4-6 versions of an F1 car each year to be effective. That's never going to happen.

Getting around the rules if part of F1. There is no 'spirit of the rules', there is only rules and how you can argue them.

I have no issue with teams trying to do this - I have issue with F1 allowing itself to be in this situation in the first place and Pirellis attempts to hide behind 'safety' as a means to effect change.

No 2013 car testing. It's black and white. There's no getting around that. Pirelli have to accept it just as the teams have to accept it. You don't sign on to a sport only to then whinge about the rules you signed on to.

[Just_a_fan]

Pirelli have to accept it just as the teams have to accept it. You don't sign on to a sport only to then whinge about the rules you signed on to.

Umm, what happens to F1 if Pirelli doesn't bother turning up for a race or two? Or the rest of the season? F1 costs them a shed load of money - probably more than any court would award for breach of contract if they decide not to play anymore.

F1 needs to remember who needs whom in this relationship...I expect Bernie to pour oil on water to make this go away quietly. He understands where the power lies.

[Cam]

I disagree. Bernie and Co always have, always will have a Plan B. You don't build a multi Billion dollar business without it. You never have you're entire business in the hands of one supplier - that's the height of stupidity. Pirelli can't 'not turn up' because it'll cost them a fortune in breach of contract, plus the PR nightmare will crush them.

If you really believe Pirelli have the "the power" - you my friend are very mistaken.

[thisisatest]

Whats to stop them making a perfect replica of the F1 car, as these things evovle throughough the year

quite simply, it is just an unregistered car they could then drive on any private track...

not only a "perfect replica", but one that isnt specifically restricted by the actual rules. they want traction, heat, degradation, balance info. they dont need to care how the air goes around them, necessarily. so they could simplify the front and rear wings, but make them produce a similar level of downforce. diffuser could be made bigger and simpler. radiators could have fans(!), allowing them to idle when making changes. water cooled calipers, so they can test repeated hard stops without worrying so much about the brakes overheating... some more room in the driver compartment for different size drivers?

[Cam]

Whats to stop them making a perfect replica of the F1 car, as these things evovle throughough the year

quite simply, it is just an unregistered car they could then drive on any private track...

not only a "perfect replica", but one that isnt specifically restricted by the actual rules. they want traction, heat, degradation, balance info. they dont need to care how the air goes around them, necessarily. so they could simplify the front and rear wings, but make them produce a similar level of downforce. diffuser could be made bigger and simpler. radiators could have fans(!), allowing them to idle when making changes. water cooled calipers, so they can test repeated hard stops without worrying so much about the brakes overheating... some more room in the driver compartment for different size drivers?

Then it wouldn't be "representative" as Hembrey is crying for. Good idea though.

[SiLo]

There must be a reason they aren't doing that, they could literally run all year round if they wanted and nobody could do anything because it's not a car that is part of the team.

[Cam]

There would still be bias. Even the Lotus test car is biased. What engine do you run? Pull rod? Kers? There's too many team centric critical components and setups to be truly representative yet independent.

The tyre supplier must simply make the best tyres they can under the environment they are given.

Encouraging anyone to flout the testing regs is dangerous. I would suggest teams are watching closely to the Trubunal result and will have their own 'joker cards' ready, if needed. Why wouldn't they.

[adrianjordan]

Okay so here's a related question...

Can Honda test their new V6 engine as much as they want during 2014?

And if so, is there anything to prevent McLaren giving Honda an MP4-29 to fit the engine to and test...if it's Honda doing the tests and not McLaren as Honda aren't involved in F1 uring 2014...??

[Cam]

Okay so here's a related question...

Can Honda test their new V6 engine as much as they want during 2014?

And if so, is there anything to prevent McLaren giving Honda an MP4-29 to fit the engine to and test...if it's Honda doing the tests and not McLaren as Honda aren't involved in F1 uring 2014...??

Michael also ruled out the possibility of Honda getting a McLaren car early for testing purposes, as the regulations will not allow it.

"The testing regulations cover last year's and next year's car, so McLaren as a team could not give them a 2014 chassis for them to run with," he said.

"We couldn't give them the 2013 chassis either to run in 2014. That's in the sporting code."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107767

[MIKEY_!]

Why did this become an argument about pirelli? I didn't ask about them. I'm asking if teams could build replicas to test engine/KERS etc, new aero parts and suspension setups. Something like this might have allowed Williams, Mclaren and Sauber to spot problems with their cars (which have been labeled fundamental) and helped Mercedes deal with their tire heating issues. Then there are wind tunnel correlation issues that could be worked through. Basically it would be the return of year long testing.
Sure a perfect replica would be useful to pirelli but that's not the point.
So again, what is there to stop this practice?