I hope it is Pirelli.lebesset wrote:is next years supplier a done deal ?
sounds like the FIA are finally laying down the law to enable the F1 tyre supplier to do their job
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... ostpopular
But rather by accident than by Pirelli's wise decisions. I agree that the shifting of the dead line makes it even more likely that Pirelli keeps the job at least one more year.JimClarkFan wrote:I think the balance between degradation and performance with the tyres is pretty much perfect at the moment.
By accident indeed, I hope they ate smart enough to take notice though.WhiteBlue wrote:But rather by accident than by Pirelli's wise decisions. I agree that the shifting of the dead line makes it even more likely that Pirelli keeps the job at least one more year.JimClarkFan wrote:I think the balance between degradation and performance with the tyres is pretty much perfect at the moment.
So it looks like Todt has not given up. Michelin could still be in the race and the deal could be a short one which would drive Pirelli out.GP.com wrote:Michelin planning announcement
Michelin has scheduled an announcement for the middle of next week, according to a report on Sunday by Germany's Auto Motor und Sport.
The report suggested the French supplier, last on the grid in 2006 as its tyre war with Bridgestone ended, could announce its interest in bidding for an F1 tender.
The news might explain the long delay over news of Pirelli's continued participation as the sport's controversial official tyre supplier, even though Paul Hembery insists plans for the 2014 season are well advanced.
Indeed, talks between the teams and Pirelli over 2014 have been speeding ahead this weekend in Hungary.
Pirelli have said they need to make the rear tyres wider to cope with the higher torque of the turbo V6s, and Mercedes strongly agrees, but teams like Ferrari and Red Bull are fighting hard for the dimensions to remain essentially the same in 2014.
"We will decide alone," Hembery insisted, "no matter what the teams want. They just need to give us their data."
A big spanner in the works, however, could be the new Michelin factor.
But correspondent Michael Schmidt wondered: "Can they (Michelin) be ready for 2014? Surely not -- it would be a very late call."
That is because the teams are scheduled to know the precise specification of the 2014 tyres by 1 September this year.
Much more likely is that Michelin might announce F1 intentions for 2015.
Hembery is quoted as saying: "We want clarity this year.
"Our contracts with the rights holder and some of the teams are for the next five years.
"If we are confronted next year with a tender for 2015, we'll be gone."
Very interesting indeed. Mercedes was the only team that was telling the press about the difficulties with standing waves in the 2013 Mark I tyres at Silverstone. If they think that the doubling of the torque will be an issue that can be positively impacted by a lower profile they are probably concerned that they could get into the same problems again that made them uncompetitive for almost half a season with the fastest car on the grid. If low profile tyres can stop such things you can expect Red Bull and Mercedes to go against Ferrari in the issue.Racecar Engineering wrote:If indeed F1 suddenly ... does a deal with Michelin then the French firm would almost certainly demand 18 inch wheel rims, which it already has a family of tyres to suit, used in LMP1, meaning that the tyres will have much lower profiles.
Mercedes has reportedly already called for a switch to wider rims to deal with the additional torque generated by the 2014 power units. Some figures such as Ferrari’s James Allison refuse to accept that Michelin could be ready for 2014, but others such as Nigel Stepney insist that the deal is already done. So perhaps the tyres will still dominate talk in the paddock in the second half of the year but for very different reasons.
I'm afraid it isn't quite that easy. A tyre does not only transmit force or torque or power at the contact patch. The internal construction is also an issue. The mechanical and thermal loads on any part of the construction must remain in the design specification limits. Tyre profile or width can very well influence the internal load bearing capabilities. The recent events should educate us to the phenomenon that thermal loads are much more difficult to assess than mechanical loads. If you have unforeseen energy dissipation in parts of the construction [aka overheating] you can have a build up of thermal loads that will lead to failure.xpensive wrote:It's of course the wheel-torque that matters, or rather the traction force on the contact-patch, and with the same total power as in 2013 this will be no different next year. Engine-torque before the gearbox and final drive is irrelevant.
Power is always force times speed, that's all there is to it.
Moreover, braking forces on the tires are much higher than traction forces anyway...
I could've sworn I just saw this exact post in another thread. It's like going to the zoo to find a gorilla throwing --- all over the place.WhiteBlue wrote:some new info:
Very interesting indeed. Mercedes was the only team that was telling the press about the difficulties with standing waves in the 2013 Mark I tyres at Silverstone. If they think that the doubling of the torque will be an issue that can be positively impacted by a lower profile they are probably concerned that they could get into the same problems again that made them uncompetitive for almost half a season with the fastest car on the grid. If low profile tyres can stop such things you can expect Red Bull and Mercedes to go against Ferrari in the issue.Racecar Engineering wrote:If indeed F1 suddenly ... does a deal with Michelin then the French firm would almost certainly demand 18 inch wheel rims, which it already has a family of tyres to suit, used in LMP1, meaning that the tyres will have much lower profiles.
Mercedes has reportedly already called for a switch to wider rims to deal with the additional torque generated by the 2014 power units. Some figures such as Ferrari’s James Allison refuse to accept that Michelin could be ready for 2014, but others such as Nigel Stepney insist that the deal is already done. So perhaps the tyres will still dominate talk in the paddock in the second half of the year but for very different reasons.
The options for intrigue are endless. What if Mercedes have suddenly safety concerns with 13 inch rims. Todt could simply call for a supply with 17 or 18 inch rim tyres based on safety and Pirelli would be holding an empty can. Michelin will have massive experience from LMP1 with high torque from the Audi diesels and 18 inch rims and will take up the slack in no time to produce F1 tyres. The cat will be among the pidgeons only this time it will not be Ecclestone doing the manipulations but Todt. And there is no Concord in place yet. Only a MoU. So Todt's powers will be much bigger without the formal empowerment of an F1 commission.
That does not sound like wider tyres but but like bigger diameter wheel rims. Racecar Engineering may have been slightly ambiguous but I think it is a valid interpretation to assume that lower profile tyres are meant. It is indeed known for years that the tyre companies all recommend wider rims or lower profile tyres. You say they do it for marketing reasons. That may be one point. But Michelin have already a finished product in LMP1 racing which those teams are very happy with. Those tyres are much more durable and reliable than the current F1 tyres. So that in itself would be a valid reason to propose wider rims.Mercedes have asked for wider rims...
