Felipe Massa - Robbed of his Prime?

[sennafan24]

I really feel Felipe Massa never fully recovered from his injury in 2009, a look at the stats should support this.

In 2008 he outscored one the best drivers on the grid in Kimi, yes it was Kimi's worst year of his career but it takes at least very good driver to beat a off-pace great driver. The year earlier in 2007 which was one of Kimi's best years, he scored respectfully and around 85% of the points Kimi scored. The Ferrari of 2009 was a bit of a hound dog, but before his crash he was outscoring Kimi in the standings.

Now, this is not to say Massa was performed better than Kimi when they were teammates, but to be this competitive and to outscore Kimi in the time they were teammates over 2 and a half seasons for me is definitive proof that Massa was a world class driver and WDC contender material.

We all know Alonso is a great driver, and a large portion on the fanbase tag him as the best driver on the grid. But you would expect from the results Massa produced against Kimi in 2007-2009 for Massa to be closer to Alonso than he has been. Alonso doubled Massa's tally in 2011 and 2012, and Massa was only able to score around 60% of Alonso's points in 2010.

Is Alonso really that much better than Kimi? I would say no, Alonso I think is a better driver, but not to the extent the difference in teammate head to heads show.

I believe Massa lost something from that crash that he has never recovered. It is a shame because before his crash, he was a really good driver, on par with Button and in my opinion better than Mark Webber has ever been.

[SectorOne]

I don´t buy the head injury, his head has been good enough to beat Alonso in races.
If it really had an impact he would not be eligible to drive a race car.
(we have seen Perez sit out a race after his Monaco crash for example due to nausea)

I fully understand the severity of the injury at the time and that it might take a while to bounce back but in truth, apart from 2008 he´s been nowhere.
He´s at Ferrari because he´s the perfect nr2. Or at least was, nowadays he´s not even up for being a nr2 driver it seems. Just way to inconsistent.

It´s a shame when you see teams like Ferrari being emotionally attached to a driver that is years past his prime.
24 spots in the whole world and Massa got one, then you know everything isn´t fully right in F1.

[marcush.]

I think this is unfortunatelly the truth. Massa had a few highlights in recent years and seemed to be on track back to his pre 2009 form but he simply does not stabilise as a constant front runner .He always seemed to rely more than anyone else on being coached by his race engineer though ,other drivers seem to be more of the indipendant type so maybe.But Cudos to Ferrari to stand by him through all these difficult years.
Maybe winning in Germany back then would have changed his progress rate to the better .confidence is a vulnerable asset especially in case of Massa .Mind you he took on Schumacher back then at Ferrari and performed .
He still is a very capable formula 1 driver ,i rate him still as good as Webber or Perez but think hülkenberg has a tiny bit more on offer these days.
Make no bones about it if there was a driver available with a lot more potential ,Massa would have lost his seat a while ago.

[sennafan24]

I don´t buy the head injury, his head has been good enough to beat Alonso in races.
If it really had an impact he would not be eligible to drive a race car.

I think he might have lost something mentally, a crash like that could haunt you subconsciously.

Also, even though his head may have recovered it may not function to the same standard as pre-crash. The injury was that severe he has a titanium plate in his head. The body is a very vulnerable thing.

[SectorOne]

I don´t buy the head injury, his head has been good enough to beat Alonso in races.
If it really had an impact he would not be eligible to drive a race car.

I think he might have lost something mentally, a crash like that could haunt you subconsciously.

Also, even though his head may have recovered it may not function to the same standard as pre-crash. The injury was that severe he has a titanium plate in his head. The body is a very vulnerable thing.

What i guess i´m saying is we don´t have time to wait for Massa to regain confidence three years later.
Release him and tell him to go visit AF Corse and join Koba instead.

If his brain isn´t functioning as good as before the crash, doctor´s would have seen it.
He had cracked part of his skull open near the eye but still was out of the hospital one week later.
It´s been way overblown as if half the brain has gone missing or something.

Might sound cold but that´s the way it is. I can only imagine the pressure he´s been under since 2010.
Probably not easy to handle.

[sennafan24]

Might sound cold but that´s the way it is. I can only imagine the pressure he´s been under since 2010.
Probably not easy to handle.

I agree it is a lost cause now. But Massa would have performed a lot better I believe if the crash would have not happened.

It probably is more mental than physical why he does not produce 2007-2009 form, but just because he is cleared to drive it does not mean his body/head will function as well as it once did, just that it functions and performs to satisfying level.

Injuries and age catch up to you, its just nature. Schumi was cleared to drive for example in 2012, but was he as good as he was in 2000? No.

[dlstanf2]

Massa & Alonzo have always been within time fractions of each other. When you have an outstanding teammate and one that is very good, the results reflect badly when judged against the other. The main problem has been Ferrari mediocre performance the past 3 to 4 years. And Massa does get handed the short end for duties at Ferrari.

[f1universe]

Is funny how at the end of last season and in some race this year, Massa was back on form for some people, now is back to he is injured. Massa has never been a top driver, a good one with moments of brillance?, yes.

[marcush.]

Is funny how at the end of last season and in some race this year, Massa was back on form for some people, now is back to he is injured. Massa has never been a top driver, a good one with moments of brillance?, yes.

simply not true.Hamiltons WDC was only possible because of Glock overtaking in the last corner of the last race -so really it was not Hamilton beating Massa but circumstances denying Massa a championship....we would see now Hamilton without a title and not Massa.
I cannot imagine any driver winning a formula 1 championship not being world class..Even Damon Hill was on his day.

[muhammadtalha-13]

Might sound cold but that´s the way it is. I can only imagine the pressure he´s been under since 2010.
Probably not easy to handle.

I agree it is a lost cause now. But Massa would have performed a lot better I believe if the crash would have not happened.

It probably is more mental than physical why he does not produce 2007-2009 form, but just because he is cleared to drive it does not mean his body/head will function as well as it once did, just that it functions and performs to satisfying level.

Injuries and age catch up to you, its just nature. Schumi was cleared to drive for example in 2012, but was he as good as he was in 2000? No.

Schumi in 2012 was better than Massa. And Schumi was 10 years older than Massa.

[sennafan24]

Schumi in 2012 was better than Massa. And Schumi was 10 years older than Massa.

Never said he was not, that is not the argument I was making.

[flattyre]

There's so much that I could say about Massa, but I will say this - I've always thought of him as a good - but not great - driver, and I clearly remember that back in 2008 some people were saying "if he wins the championship, he might be the most undeserving champion ever." A bit over-the-top, maybe, but it goes to show how people had their doubts about him back then, too.

Don't ever write off a serious injury, either. These things DO affect your mind, even if you don't realize it, and quite frankly I think that, if you believe Massa is 100% of the driver he was pre-injury, then either you've never experienced a life-threatening situation yourself or you don't realise the implications of it. He might only have had the slightest of changes mentally, but in a sport such as F1 where you must be at 100% of your game the whole time, being at 99.9% could mean a huge difference on track. This would mainly include judgement in taking risks on track, but if we're going to talk about pace, then if a driver finishes 15 seconds behind his teammate in a 90 min race, then he is only 0.3% slower...

[SectorOne]

Is funny how at the end of last season and in some race this year, Massa was back on form for some people, now is back to he is injured. Massa has never been a top driver, a good one with moments of brillance?, yes.

simply not true.Hamiltons WDC was only possible because of Glock overtaking in the last corner of the last race -so really it was not Hamilton beating Massa but circumstances denying Massa a championship....we would see now Hamilton without a title and not Massa.
I cannot imagine any driver winning a formula 1 championship not being world class..Even Damon Hill was on his day.

He would have been a 10 time world champ if everyone stayed home as well and let him race by himself.
Obviously he did not do enough in 2008 to take the title. Just like Alonso and Hamilton did not do enough to win in 07 where Kimi exploited the situation and snatched the title.
Or Alonso/Webber in 2010 where Vettel who had never led the championship, took it home in the last race.

Edit: sorry for talking COMMON SENSE, apparently it´s something that is foreign here.

[marcush.]

come on ,you would say an obvious strike of luck would make a world champion material drivver an also ran? Alonsos efforts are no better or worse having actually snatched the title.
Some drivers never won a title but were without a doubt a match for anyone -Gilles Villeneuve,Ronnie Peterson ,Carlos Reutemann ,Carlos Pace ,Tony Brise ,Stefan Bellof to name a few

[lebesset]

come on ,you would say an obvious strike of luck would make a world champion material drivver an also ran? Alonsos efforts are no better or worse having actually snatched the title.
Some drivers never won a title but were without a doubt a match for anyone -Gilles Villeneuve,Ronnie Peterson ,Carlos Reutemann ,Carlos Pace ,Tony Brise ,Stefan Bellof to name a few

undoubtedly the best driver never to win the title ...stirling moss ... if you trust fangio's judgement