Counting cars?

[xpensive]

Some time ago, a long time actually, my math-professor at university tried to xplain to us that man cannot count to more than six, holding up his hands to prove his point. I was thinking about this when I watched the Spa-race recently, spotting three, four or five cars in the same image is easy enough, but is that six or seven, did the man have a point?

[timbo]

Some time ago, a long time actually, my math-professor at university tried to xplain to us that man cannot count to more than six, holding up his hands to prove his point. I was thinking about this when I watched the Spa-race recently, spotting three, four or five cars in the same image is easy enough, but is that six or seven, did the man have a point?

It is well established that the scope of attention is limited to no more than six-seven objects simultaneously.
But what caused your interest?

[xpensive]

As I said, watching six or seven cars down the straight got me confused, can this ability of perception be trained?

[Bomber_Pilot]

Not quite on topic I think, but thereabout.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGQmdoK_ZfY[/youtube]

[timbo]

As I said, watching six or seven cars down the straight got me confused, can this ability of perception be trained?

I heard that 6-7 is a limit, but with proper training people manage to overcome that by learning to switching the area of attention. E.g. you have 20 objects to watch, you group them and focus only to 5-6, then switch to next 5-6 etc.
I heard this was used in aircraft controls design, where controls with similar functions were grouped (engine revs, temps, oil pressures, nav section etc) and the pilots were trained to distribute their attention span not focusing on one thing for long and grasp one group at a time then shift to next.
Although I do not have a deep knowledge on the subject, but I do know that it was studied, and that 6-7 number is often mentioned.

[xpensive]

Close enough Bomber, perhaps we do not appreciate the show that is on, the way we should perceive it?

[timbo]

Close enough Bomber, perhaps we do not appreciate the show that is on, the way we should perceive it?

Yeah. And people often bash NASCAR fans. Imagine perception abilities required!

[xpensive]

...
Although I do not have a deep knowledge on the subject, but I do know that it was studied, and that 6-7 number is often mentioned.

In that case the old man was correct, but what does it mean for the F1, more that 6 cars in one image is a crowd?

[timbo]

...
Although I do not have a deep knowledge on the subject, but I do know that it was studied, and that 6-7 number is often mentioned.

In that case the old man was correct, but what does it mean for the F1, more that 6 cars in one image is a crowd?

I think that it does not create a problem on a static image as one would have no problem to shift attention as mcuh as needed. But it often creates a problem when watching a live broadcast, yeah. And it is often demonstrated on replays where camera man follows the front of the pack and totally misses something happening in the back.

[MOWOG]

Does this suggest that we, as a species, are not half as smart as we think we are?

[timbo]

Does this suggest that we, as a species, are not half as smart as we think we are?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJAH4ZJBiN8[/youtube]

[Richard]

Isn't that Chimpanzee video a bit misleading? The chimpanzee has been trained for that task, just like humans who can memorise an entire pack of cards.

Back to the OP, I think there is a thing about pattern recognition as opposed to actual counting. The key to pattern recognition is not to look directly at the subject but give space for the signals from your peripheral vision. I recall something about army sentries being trained to use their peripheral vision because it is more sensitive to movement, hence the english expression "I saw something move at the corner of my eye", that's useful for avoid tigers or spotting berries when foraging. Meanwhile our central vision is evolved to focus on single objects, eg to work out if the berry is poisonous.

We spend our modern life focussed on the central vision because we are always looking at text or images. So when we watch racing we try to look at the actual cars as opposed to the overall pattern.

I experience that most when driving - I'm looking at the road ahead most of the time but can recall the colour and make of a parked car, or a car on a side road, even though I never looked directly at it. My vision is focussed on one car, but my brain is aware of 3 or 4 other cars. The key is to give space to that bigger picture. There's a book called "Hare Brain, Tortoise Mind" about this sort of thing. John Cleese has done a video on the subject with some good examples of pattern recognition, I can't find it online.

Also Gestalt emergence has similar ideas.

[timbo]

Isn't that Chimpanzee video a bit misleading? The chimpanzee has been trained for that task, just like humans who can memorise an entire pack of cards.

From the article I remember the point was chimps were very swift learners and surpassed abilities of trained humans. The misleading part is comparison to humans and trying to use that skill as a measure of intelligence.

[xpensive]

What if what I saw at Monza back in 1971, six cars passing the line within less than a second, was just imaginary?

[timbo]

What if what I saw at Monza back in 1971, six cars passing the line within less than a second, was just imaginary?

Actually, it is more likely there were ten or fifteen, but you only was able to count six