F1 Low and High Down Force Ciricuts?

[Spirits of Senna]

Sorry if this post belonged another forum.

I understand that a circuit can be characterized as low down force circuit such as Monza and Spa.

What about high down force circuits?
Also for Monaco, what kind of circuit is it?
Lastly, a more general question for a circuit that was a 50/50 even split on low and high down forces, what kind of aero-package a car will usually have? A balanced one or leaning towards one type of forces?

[raymondu999]

Monaco is high downforce, because the extra traction and braking helps you. The corners are slow though, so it doesn't really help with apex speed much.

If it's a 50-50, depends on which corners are the "laptime" corners. It really depends.

[Spirits of Senna]

Thank you for your reply.

From the comment, can I presume Monaco is a high force because there are more turns than straights in distance so areas to gain tractions are through corners and aero for brake events since braking and weight transfer are likely needed prior to cornering?

[raymondu999]

After a fashion, yes. Basically, teams will choose their downforce level based on cost vs benefit - if the added apex speed, traction and braking outweigh the additional drag loss, then they will go for a higher level. And vice versa.

[beelsebob]

Monaco is high downforce because it needs downforce more than it needs low drag. Because of that, the teams bolt every barn door they're allowed to bolt on onto the car. Similarly, Spa and Monza are low downforce because they require low drag above all else, including downforce generation, so the teams run the skinniest little wings they can get away with.

For truly mixed tracks, look at places like China, Malaysia and Korea.

[Juzh]

For truly mixed tracks, look at places like China, Malaysia and Korea.

But everyone still wants the most downforce they can slap on the car, even on those circuits? I don't quite get it.

[beelsebob]

For truly mixed tracks, look at places like China, Malaysia and Korea.

But everyone still wants the most downforce they can slap on the car, even on those circuits? I don't quite get it.

No, the teams run a compromise set up at these circuits, they are not bolting on every barn door here.

[raymondu999]

They will bolt more downforce until it starts slowing them down (thanks to the added drag outweighing the extra grip)

[SectorOne]

Technically it´s the other way around (even though it´s wrong to say in general terms)

Monza will produce so much downforce that you need to take of wing. Monaco will produce so little downforce that you need to bolt on everything.
But that´s the wrong way to say it when discussing high vs low DF circuits.

[Tommy Cookers]

Monaco wings clearly have a high DF coefficient, Monza wings clearly have a low DF coefficient
IMO this has produced the confusing term high DF and low DF circuits
it doesn't necessarily mean that eg Monaco has higher DF than Monza

in aircraft the lift coefficient is greatly varied by the pilot reshaping the wing according to speed (takeoff,climb,cruise)
so making the lift the same at all speeds
without this variation lift would be proportional to the square of the speed

so if we didn't vary the Monaco wing when got to Monza the DF would be much greater than at Monaco (too much in parts of the lap)

[beelsebob]

Monaco wings clearly have a high DF coefficient, Monza wings clearly have a low DF coefficient
IMO this has produced the confusing term high DF and low DF circuits
it doesn't necessarily mean that eg Monaco has higher DF than Monza

in aircraft the lift coefficient is greatly varied by the pilot reshaping the wing according to speed (takeoff,climb,cruise)
so making the lift the same at all speeds
without this variation lift would be proportional to the square of the speed

so if we didn't vary the Monaco wing when got to Monza the DF would be much greater than at Monaco (too much in parts of the lap)

We went through this before. It's not confusing at all, it's not referring to absolute downforce generation. It's referring to relative downforce generation of the cars at set speed. At a set speed, the cars at Monaco will generate more downforce than the cars at Monza. This makes Monaco high, and Monza low downforce.

[SectorOne]

The easiest way is to simply say what downforce package is brought to the track. If it´s the highDF pack then it´s a highDF track. And vice versa.