Does the Mercedes-Benz M133 Engine contain F1 DNA?

[Cocles]

With the introduction of the new Mercedes-Benz A Class, CLA, & GLA comes a brand new four cylinder engine from AMG, the M133. Details of which can be perused here:

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/engineering ... tion=20l4c

The story I keep hearing from different sources is that when F1 was originally going to move to a four cylinder turbo formula, Mercedes HPP (Brixworth) had already completed a substantial amount of work before Ferrari convinced the FIA to switch to a six cylinder setup.

Shortly down the road, Mercedes-Benz AMG needed a small, powerful engine for their new entry models. More experienced with large V8 and V12's, they turned to Brixworth for their expertise in smaller performance engines. Brixworth then apparently handed off all of the data regarding their four cylinder F1 engine.

The M133's 7mm wall thickness and 90mm bore center space are supposedly hold-overs from Brixworth's four cylinder F1 engine.

Has anyone else here heard any other details on this, or knows of a reliable source? The problem I'm running into is a lot of specific rumors, but very little actual sources from Brixworth or Affalterbach.

[Lycoming]

I'm not sure I would call the experience from the aborted development of one engine in the very early stages "expertise".

[GitanesBlondes]

Motor Trend had mentioned in early 2012 that this engine was the remnants of the aborted 4-cylinder F1 turbo project.

I've not been able to find any smoking gun if you will, but given the cylinder walls, and the bore center space are the exact same measurements as the F1 engine would have been, it's fair to say this engine is a direct link to the scrapped F1 engine. It wouldn't be all that unusual for Mercedes to roll over the developments of that engine into some of their road cars as it is an easier way to justify the money spent on the F1 program, and it's way to show not all of the money on the 4-cylinder project was pissed away.

[timbo]

I would be very cautious of that as a buyer .

[FoxHound]

The M133 is actually a based on the M270 family of engines.

AMG began with the M270 straight four turbo petrol unit found in an A250. In standard spec the engine makes around 208 bhp at 5,500 and 350 Nm of torque. Compared to the astronomical 355bhp of the M133.
Some pretty heavy duty work was carried out by both Brixworth and Afalterbach in breathing on the engine as your link testifies....

There are also some rumours that AMG had thought of using a V8 for the A45. Akin to the old SLK55, no turbos and slightly detuned.
The M133 nails it because it is far lighter, uses less fuel/emissions and has far less mass over the front axle giving better mass distribution front to rear.

Hope this helps.

[xpensive]

The M133 is actually a based on the M270 family of engines.
...

That sounds far more plausible, but the MHPE-connection was a cool marketing trick, no?

[FoxHound]

To make the humble 270 achieve what it does in 133 guise, you need a lot of engineering work.
Thats where Brixworth chipped in.

[xpensive]

To make the humble 270 achieve what it does in 133 guise, you need a lot of engineering work.
Thats where Brixworth chipped in.

That's not what I've heard, rather that the 133 is the result of specialist input from the Renault cooperation?

[Holm86]

The M133 is actually a based on the M270 family of engines.
...

That sounds far more plausible, but the MHPE-connection was a cool marketing trick, no?

Just as this line "The engine will be used first in the A 45 AMG and as the most powerful series production four cylinder turbo engine with an output of 265 kW and 450 Nm torque will take the pole position in the competition segment."

Sounds good for marketing though not entirely correct.

What about the Lancer EVO FQ400. 100 was made of that car and it had 400 hp and 540 nm.

[FoxHound]

To make the humble 270 achieve what it does in 133 guise, you need a lot of engineering work.
Thats where Brixworth chipped in.

That's not what I've heard, rather that the 133 is the result of specialist input from the Renault cooperation?

Was this the same source as the AMG badged nissan?

Because I can tell you the M270 has nothing to do with Renault. Nor the M133.
Does the the A-class use Renault sourced engines? Yes, as part of their alliance.
Mainly diesel engines.

Is the A45AMG running with a Renault lump?

Of course not. As Renault have different architecture in their 4 cylinder engine to that of the Mercedes, which we can see is clearly derived from the M270. Which is clearly a Mercedes engine.

You ought to know X!

[FoxHound]

@ Holm

They don't make that anymore...

[Cocles]

100 was made of that car and it had 400 hp and 540 nm.

Limited edition, and I believe all 100 have already been made so it's not even in production anymore. Read what Merc is specifically claiming.

[xpensive]

...
Does the the A-class use Renault sourced engines? Yes, as part of their alliance.
...

With the engine regulations for 2014 and beyond, I wouldn't be surprised if the new MHPE F1 engine will be a joint Renault venture?

[Cocles]

...
Does the the A-class use Renault sourced engines? Yes, as part of their alliance.
...

With the engine regulations for 2014 and beyond, I wouldn't be surprised if the new MHPE F1 engine will be a joint Renault venture?

Ever the rumormonger with that crystal ball of yours.