Track boundaries

[Chuckjr]

Oh god. Not this crap again.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... ual_basis/

Why does Whiting have to make this issue so volatile and complicated? There's no need for this. Just a flat rule is all that's nessasary...

Four wheels off the black tarmac =
quali: that lap time is ommited.
race: driver is given a penalty.

Simple to understand and implement.

Effective resolution to keep drivers from abusing the track boundaries.

Consistent rule from race to race with no controversy.

Fair to the fans.

No driver or team preferred over another so everyone has equal status.

Why does it gave to be so complicated?

[beelsebob]

The problem is that certain off-track adventures *are* worse than others.

Remember Hungary last year, everyone was up in arms at Grosjean being penalised for passing Massa off track in turn 4. The reason everyone was up in arms was because Grosjean was already fully along side, and was effectively forced off the track to avoid a collision.

Personally, I'm still of the opinion that this should not have been punished, and I'm glad that they're leaving scope for this.

[Lycoming]

Four wheels off the black tarmac =
quali: that lap time is ommited.
race: driver is given a penalty.

Wouldn't this mean that if somebody goes a bit too deep on the brakes and gets all 4 wheels into, say, the paved runoff, that he will then deserve a penalty for that? If so, why penalize him when he's gained no advantage from leaving the track?

[Chuckjr]

I understand there are certain exceptions, I'm not trying to get this to walk on all fours. Rather, the constant putting all four wheels off not by force, but by choice, is my point here. Certainly in RG situation last year was a force. That's not what I'm bringing up here--at least not intentionally. Rather, the guys that just blatantly put all four off when nobody is next to them to gain advantage - time or pace.

As for the late brake q, IMO, yea, the lap should not count if it's quali. It's the drivers fault he braked to late. Bummer bob. If it's during the race, certainly if the lap is slower, that's the penalty. I should have made that clear. Sorry bout that. But if the lap is quicker or the driver gains advantage, certainly there should be consequence! They left the boundary of the track...this should not be an issue IMO. The driver left the track, gained advantage, and should be held accountable. It does not have to be so complicated in my view.

Sometimes I wonder if they do this to cause controversy and thus, more viewers/interest from fans but maybe that's a nutty idea. Wouldn't be my first! Lol

[Juzh]

Why not just put down higher kerbs on corner entry and exit which would unsettle the car to the extent it's not worth it to cut and go wide?
India was the biggest problem, right? It's gone now anyway so it'll be less of a problem this year maybe.

[Vettel Maggot]

While they are at it remove the green astro turf from the outside of every curb. It used to be a thin strip now it's almost the width of a car! It kept being abused in Melbourne on the exit of turn 10 (I think, the fast right handler) but back in the day there was just grass. Much more of a penalty to hit the grass than the plasticky green stuff!

[oT v1]

Why not just put down higher kerbs on corner entry and exit which would unsettle the car to the extent it's not worth it to cut and go wide?
India was the biggest problem, right? It's gone now anyway so it'll be less of a problem this year maybe.

The teams would argue that it could damage the car.....and they'd win I fully agree with you though Juzh

[iotar__]

Don't get me started on track limits hypocrisy . You'd think last season's bankruptcy of decency of applying the rules should still be biting FIA in the a... but it's shameless "about the corners". Let me give you this handy C. Whiting's "corners" guide for 2014:
Hungary - Gro-Mass (whichever, 4th) corner - bad
Singapore - Hulk-Per corner - bad
Suzuka - Ricc-... corner - bad
India (?) (or wherever) - Hul- Bott - surprisingly - OK
Abu Dhabi - Alon-Verg - all rules thrown away - OK
Brazil - Massa - huge controversy but - bad
In true F1 fashion when everything stands on its head the closest, first and the most controversial case, 10 cm for split second wasn't controversial at all, 4 wheels off - penalty no doubt about it. All other were discussed as if there was anything to discuss about them after that, especially Abu Dhabi. So no 1. not every incident is different, 2. there were closest possible penalised, and blatant ones that weren't.

Instead of dealing with it properly like comment on every situation or admit to mistakes their usual conduct is to weasel themselves out with fake explanation that it's all about corners and every incident is "different". Even in NBA where you pay to state opinion they learned to explain bad calls, they say openly this situation was a foul and call was wrong.
Imagine something like that in F1, it would force them to be consistent no matter which team/driver is involved and they wouldn't want that.

[mertol]

It's very simple really. The rules say that you can't gain a "lasting advantage" by going offtrack. Offtrack is defined clearly only advantage is not (or maybe it is but I couldn't find it in the rules). They should just define advantage clearly. Maybe something like gaining a track position or posting a green sector.

[MadMatt]

Raising curbs will never happen because the FIA is afraid of the cars to fly or start rolling. I think this is not relevent anymore since the cars sits higher than my lowered road car. I have never been a fan of the tarmac run off and I still think it is an idiotic thing to do. Regarding the track limit issue the only thing I see is to use some artificial lower friction grass for the width of 1 F1 car just on the outside of the proper track width (as it was written here), that will cause the driver to understeer far enough to make him lose time anyway.

[Chuckjr]

Why not just put down higher kerbs on corner entry and exit which would unsettle the car to the extent it's not worth it to cut and go wide?
India was the biggest problem, right? It's gone now anyway so it'll be less of a problem this year maybe.

I really really like the idea of using the kerbs somehow to resolve this. That takes the human judging /semantic element out. The kerbs do the work for all. No need for penalty monitoring...the kerbs just break the suspension arms a la Massa and thats that.

What if instead of high kerbs they used larger and slightly deeper rumble strips? This way it's a gaurentee to be the slower line without it being a huge ramp to launch the cars. Maybe extend the kerb itself to twice as deep (or long -- however you term it). Then use ultra slippery paint who's surface acts like wax -- like when the paint is wet and the drivers can then magically avoid the kerbs no problem.

That would resolve this for the most part imo.

Edit:
This was not clear above, but what I'm saying is to make the rumble strip deeper they dig the deep part of the rumble strip further down into the ground, not raise the height of the higher part of the rumble strip. This way the car can't launch as the high part is no higher, but the low part is lower. Small drain holes could be implemented into the lower part for proper drainage during rain since these would be lower than the tarmac.


Great idea Juzh.

[Juzh]

Raising curbs will never happen because the FIA is afraid of the cars to fly or start rolling.

There's a mile long run off in almost all tricky spots. I don't see a problem.
Sort of like kerbs put down in monza in variante della rogia in 2011. If you remember in previous years cars were bouncing all over the place on those kerbs and cutting the second part of the chickane quite massively was almost considered a racing line. They try do to this now and car would launch or brake suspension easily. Problem solved.

[beelsebob]

Why not just put down higher kerbs on corner entry and exit which would unsettle the car to the extent it's not worth it to cut and go wide?
India was the biggest problem, right? It's gone now anyway so it'll be less of a problem this year maybe.

Because this will penalise people who are forced wide, or tight just as much as people who voluntarily and illegally do it.

[beelsebob]

Raising curbs will never happen because the FIA is afraid of the cars to fly or start rolling.

And also because high curbs make motorbike racing impossible at that circuit.

[Juzh]

Why not just put down higher kerbs on corner entry and exit which would unsettle the car to the extent it's not worth it to cut and go wide?
India was the biggest problem, right? It's gone now anyway so it'll be less of a problem this year maybe.

Because this will penalise people who are forced wide, or tight just as much as people who voluntarily and illegally do it.

The same way grass or techpro barriers would. Not an issue imo. Driver would simply have to carve into their minds they can no longer floor it immediately after the apex. Good example ricciardo vs sutil (?) last year in suzuka. Ric simply floored it trough 130R knowing he could get away with it (crash wise) if he runs wide. Wouldn't be the case with either grass or high kerbs.