FWD 1/4 mile Clockwise Oval setup

[DelSol2Win]

Hey.. looking for some advice.. we will be starting our 2nd season Production Rod racing in the Isle of Man (Best known for the TT races!) here are the regs... http://onchanraceway.com/assets/applets ... D_REGS.pdf The class is Budget 1.6 no 4wd, no turbo, max wheel width 8 inch, tyres can be any road legal, cars can be lowered, no weight limits, tyres same size on axle, lsd's allowed, cages compulsary. Motors stock, performance filters and exhaust allowed but headers stock.... So last season we went for a '93 170hp (when new!) Civic Delsol vti 2-door and by dropping it 2-2,5 inches we got neg camber on the outside LF and added a helical LSD much later in the season and clawed our way up to finish 3rd. Track is Flat and Tarmac but not smooth. The winner was a Miata with a very experienced driver followed by a civic sohc. but we were close... My Son Drives I just spanner for him....We have much more power, as shown in the small straights, but also massive understeer is killing last half to end of corner speed. we can change springs for different oem springs and have been told we can have max 5 deg camber but only using oem suspension... It would seem once we hit Vtec mid-corner 5-6k rpm our dynamics problems start. Anyone got any FWD Oval Setup experience? We are building into a replacement DelSol Shell, 7 weeks to go until season starts, meant to be non-contact, but we were bullied all season! So far we have been advised to get the weight on the inside of the car, meaning right hand drive, clockwise, get the weight on the righthand side. Would stiff springs on the LH back and front be good? how about lowering the inside (right) more than the outside? (left) max speed 65-70mph in 2nd gear... Love some help, love2Win!

[autogyro]

Others on here will be able to give you much more detailed advice on suspension.
However I raced RH ovals with some very quick minis for a number of years with good results.
Proper Minis that is not BMWs with badges.
Very basic would be to set the rear up with around two and a half degrees of toe out on the NSR as well as negative camber.
That will sort the over steer.
Track the front up with the wide tyres to as near parallel as possible and avoid toe in.

[Facts Only]

Have you tried setting up the car asymmetrically? As you have an LSD, keeping the inside wheel contact patch as large as possible would probably give the biggest gain.

Just as a punt (I'm not an oval racer but do set-up my own race cars) I would start by running a little bit of toe out, and less camber on the inside wheel to keep it more upright.

With it being OEM suspension you are pretty limited but could you "adjust" the upper and lower arms to try to remove some of the caster angle? This could help by stopping the outside wheel lifting and the inside wheel dropping during the turn.

Disclaimer: This may be terrible advice.

[DelSol2Win]

Others on here will be able to give you much more detailed advice on suspension.
However I raced RH ovals with some very quick minis for a number of years with good results.
Proper Minis that is not BMWs with badges.
Very basic would be to set the rear up with around two and a half degrees of toe out on the NSR as well as negative camber.
That will sort the over steer.
Track the front up with the wide tyres to as near parallel as possible and avoid toe in.

Thanks for the advice, a good place to start......Can only test at the track, so may leave std for first meeting for a baseline.... there's a bit of talk on Camber, caster and rear toe-in and OEM rules, we are allowed 5 Deg in the regs but if the OEM susp cannot be adjusted, have to be careful and subtle...

[DelSol2Win]

Have you tried setting up the car asymmetrically? As you have an LSD, keeping the inside wheel contact patch as large as possible would probably give the biggest gain.

Just as a punt (I'm not an oval racer but do set-up my own race cars) I would start by running a little bit of toe out, and less camber on the inside wheel to keep it more upright.

With it being OEM suspension you are pretty limited but could you "adjust" the upper and lower arms to try to remove some of the caster angle? This could help by stopping the outside wheel lifting and the inside wheel dropping during the turn.

Disclaimer: This may be terrible advice.

Defo with the inside front camber and slight toe-out with LSD Haven't got my head around Castor, need to do a bit of swatting up... !

[countersteer]

What are you doing with sway bars front and rear?

From my autocross days, you'll want to disconnect the front sway bar and use the rear for roll control. Once you're lifting the rear inside tire, that's all you can do with the rear. If you're rolling too far at that point, you'll have to start adding roll stiffness to the front.

I wonder if you can get creative with a rear roll bar that increases in stiffness when the weight transfer goes to the back under acceleration? Hmmm.... Maybe a highly progressive spring on the outside rear? A bump rubber?

Just thinking out loud...

[DelSol2Win]

Would that help with the understeer? the track is flat with just a few bumps see this for track, this is F2, not our class... but track view is good... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQVuLrnCSdA

[autogyro]

I had a variable toe/camber rear on my oval mini and that still owns a couple of lap records.

[DelSol2Win]

how about Tyres...? we were only allowed 195/50's last season... now only limit is an 8 inch rim! If we were to fit 245 r888's to the front, would we actually see much more grip? Talking to one guy over here, he reckons no, as the overall weight of the car commands the contact patch size... I'm thinking if we are mid V-tec 7krpm coming out a turn every bit of rubber helps!

[lynden]

What are you doing with sway bars front and rear?

From my autocross days, you'll want to disconnect the front sway bar and use the rear for roll control. Once you're lifting the rear inside tire, that's all you can do with the rear. If you're rolling too far at that point, you'll have to start adding roll stiffness to the front.

I wonder if you can get creative with a rear roll bar that increases in stiffness when the weight transfer goes to the back under acceleration? Hmmm.... Maybe a highly progressive spring on the outside rear? A bump rubber?

Just thinking out loud...

why would removing the front sway bar help
thought leaving them on would help keep it flat
only asking as trying to improve my civic