wow! how the tides have changed

j4kwan · Post 30 Jul 2006, 18:30

before the german GP, if Schumi won all the races with Alonso in 2nd until the end of the season, Alonso would still win the championship. Boring!

now...with the German GP complete

If that same scenario remains the same, Schumi would come out on top with a ONE point lead to with the championship!

Brazil GP would be one awesome GP to watch!

Saribro · Post 30 Jul 2006, 19:17

Let's not get overexcited on the basis of 1 race :).

DaveKillens · Post 30 Jul 2006, 21:23

When Flavio choose to publicly humiliate Michelin by displaying the blistered tires to the world, it was an open challenge for them to improve.
Shu had it easy today, he had Massa to protect him and a technically superior car. When things get closer and tighter, Shu usually cracks. We shall see, there's a lot of racing to go.

wazojugs · Post 30 Jul 2006, 22:21

i hope its like 1994 (with the exception of schumi losing) or 1997 and 1998 [-o<

saam · Post 31 Jul 2006, 06:13

When things get closer and tighter, Shu usually cracks.

Is this so?? I dont want to mention how old he is and in what shape he is in physically and how he is the "rain master" and a driver that uses his head as well as his ability.

By the way this is not my personal opinion, just what i see from they guy and im not german

Shumi crack, i think not !!!

Its still as amuses me when the people say that ferrari wins are due to their tires and when renault wins its due to their superiority. I dont see any ferrari people showing the world their underperforming tires in last years races and some of this years as well.

I dont blame that people want to see other teams and constructors be up there with the fame and glory, but why should SUPERIOR teams step down, its other teams that should step UP.....

Jersey Tom · Post 31 Jul 2006, 06:31

Well hey. Tires are the most important part of any racecar.

RacingManiac · Post 31 Jul 2006, 07:10

Jersey Tom wrote:Well hey. Tires are the most important part of any racecar.

True that, but Ferrari also develops their own Bridgestone...it works both way....Michelin won last year's Championship for Renault, just like how Ferrari F2005 was a dog because of the Bridgestone. You can never say it is only because of tire. When the tire was as bad as the Bridgestone was for Ferrari in 2005, you cannot make headway with your car development neither, and thus you start to lag on both front(as seen quite clearly this season again with Honda and their problem utilising their tire). When Bridgestone are on a good day, it does not mean a Minardi is suddenly going to win neither....

wazojugs · Post 31 Jul 2006, 09:05

but you would have to admit that ferrari have had a resurgence and all of a sudden the toyota's have come into the pointy end of the race as well as webber running very well in the german gp.

tyres have have very big saying in the performance of the car

djones · Post 31 Jul 2006, 09:37

Even if it was the fault of the tyres why would Michelin want to put loads of effort in near the end of the season???? They are not in F1 from next year, they don't care. If a car with Michelin tyres on does not win the WC Michelin will just say thats because it's the cars fault.

No company in their right mind would spend loads of time/MONEY developing the tyres at this stage in their last season!!!!!!

Renault are in trouble big time

wazojugs · Post 31 Jul 2006, 11:29

I think Michelin will give every possible effort to providing tyres to the renault team to win the two championships.

To leave at the end of the season being the winning tyre supplier will be a big two fingers up at the FIA and Bridgestone.

manchild · Post 31 Jul 2006, 12:10

djones wrote:No company in their right mind would spend loads of time/MONEY developing the tyres at this stage in their last season!!!!!!

I think that all big tyre manufacturers constantly develop racing tyres even when they are not racing in certain series just because they could follow potential oposition in years to come. Don't tell me that Michelin developed their F1 tyre from scratch after more than a decade out of F1 in 6 months or 1 year before they re-entered F1. Development never ends, I sure as much as I'm sure that Michelin will develop better tyres in the rest of the season.

Regarding Ferrari-Bridgestone and Renault-Michelin... Bridgestone makes their tyres to suit only Ferrari while Michelin makes more universal tyres. Don't forget that in 2005 Mclaren was on no-keel and Renault on V-keel and still both teams menaged to dominate over rest of the grid with completely different suspension and same tyres.

Perhaps the tide has changed only because Renault removed mass damper? That's 9-10 kg that make a huge difference in ballance, not to mention loss of positive effect of its functioning.

Even more, can any Ferrari fan confirm that Ferrari also removed their mass damper for race in Germany? If they didn't remove it and there is a huge chance that it is so because they didn't announce that as Renault did than tide was turned by usual fishy FIA-Ferrari scam. Any reports that other teams that were using mass damper removed it too? What about Mclaren, Honda, Toyota?

pyry · Post 31 Jul 2006, 12:45

people, cars and companies are best remembered by the thing they did last. of course a quitting driver puts extra effort into his last season, especially last race. isnt it better that people say: "fia forced michelin out, but they left as winners with a bouble championship" rather than "good thing michelin quite, they didnt have what it takes and lost both championships in the last third of the season"

emburmak · Post 31 Jul 2006, 14:40

manchild wrote:
djones wrote: Regarding Ferrari-Bridgestone and Renault-Michelin... Bridgestone makes their tyres to suit only Ferrari while Michelin makes more universal tyres. Don't forget that in 2005 Mclaren was on no-keel and Renault on V-keel and still both teams menaged to dominate over rest of the grid with completely different suspension and same tyres.

Perhaps the tide has changed only because Renault removed mass damper? That's 9-10 kg that make a huge difference in ballance, not to mention loss of positive effect of its functioning.

Even more, can any Ferrari fan confirm that Ferrari also removed their mass damper for race in Germany? If they didn't remove it and there is a huge chance that it is so because they didn't announce that as Renault did than tide was turned by usual fishy FIA-Ferrari scam. Any reports that other teams that were using mass damper removed it too? What about Mclaren, Honda, Toyota?

What a load of bull!! Michelin came with two different sets per team. They other BS teams are resugent too. The other Michelin teams chose the softer compound. Renault in their misguided wisdom went for the harder ones-- the same mistake ferrari had done earlier in the season.

As for the tide changing that started at Indy when Renault had their dampers. I can confirm Ferrari for your info removed their mass dampers before coming to Germany. A mere click on the different sites will confirm this.

Renault have failed to match the pace of development of Ferrari and if this continues damper or no damper they will lose both championships. Excuses or conspiracy thoeries wont change that simple fact.

manchild · Post 31 Jul 2006, 16:17

I'm not talkingh about different compounds but about construction of tyre to suit Ferrari's suspension!

As for develpoment... plase tell me what has Ferrari developed between Canadian GP and US GP?

They've packed Sunday evening after Canadian GP and unpacked 3 days later in Indianapolis so there was no place for any segnificant development. Only different thing are tyres.

emburmak wrote:I can confirm Ferrari for your info removed their mass dampers before coming to Germany. A mere click on the different sites will confirm this.

Can you please find a link where Ferrari said they've removed their mass damper because I didn't see such info on none of several major F1 sites I visit daily?

manchild · Post 31 Jul 2006, 16:29

Even better, I found this http://www.f1editorial.com/index.php?pa ... cleID=2549

Subtitle says "Renault removed its controversial 'mass damper' system at Hockenheim on Friday, while Ferrari left the technology at its base in Italy."

The question is, how could Ferrari knew in advance that after scrutineering FIA will protest against decision of their own stewards and say that mass damper is illegal? That article says that they didn't even bring it in Hockenheim so if that is correct they've must ahve known what even FIA stewards didn't know before they got a phonecall from Mosley!