Mercedes-Benz FO110Q

[rodlamas]

Hello everybody there

Everybody us talking about the new cars from Mclaren and Williams, but nothing major is being talked about their engines. The P84 is understood to be a very good one with very good reliability and power.

But what about the Mercdes FO110Qfrom the Mclaren MP4/19? It´s said to be based on the FO110P from the never-raced MP4/18, that would rev till 19700 rpm and would generate some 930 bhp.

Does it have the power to match BMW? Is it heavy? Realiable?

Waiting for answers.........

[wowf1]

To be honest i'm really annoyed with the new engine regulations concerning the 1-per-weekend thing. I, and i'm sure many others were looking forward to seeing who could get to 20, 000rpm first, and who could get anywhere near 1000bhp. Now all we'll have is heavier, slower engines season after season as the length of time they must operate increases.

With regards to which engine will be the best, the BMW marketing talk sounds to me like they haven't gone anywhere near revolutionising the P83, all they've done is left a bit more metal hear and there in the valvtrain and moving parts.

I think it's a safe bet that Mercedes Benz will have a much different engine than last year in the MP4-17D. I think it could well be Mclaren with the most grunt this year, near to Ferrari, with Williams struggling a bit. Obviously BMW don't build slow engines, but have they done enough when they are focusing on the gearbox as well? hard to say. we'll see i guess.

rob

[Guest]

Oks, but let´s consider sth

The engine on the back of the MP4/17D was the same Mercedes-Benz FO110M that started in 2002 at the back of the Mclaren MP4/17 and had lots of problems and had very low power compared to bmw and ferrari, although being a match for the others.

This engine, as well as the car, was heavily revised for 2003 and appeared at Melbourne with sth in the region of 875-885 bhp. As the season progressed the most part of the Mclaren efforts were put on the new car so the left the olds car and engines a little behind in terms of development, so it could only get one improvement that was from Monza onwards. Mercedes developed a new injection system that not only saved more fuel but also increased the power in 16 bhp. Mclaren should have finished the season with sth in the region of the 900 bhp, together with Ferrari while BMW maybe was at 920-930.

Norbert Haug has already said that he doesn´t expect and will not accept that his engines had less power than in 2003. So I expect Mercedes to come with a very good engine. Mclaren has not had many problems in testing. The biggest one is related to the setaing position not with the car itself.

I also expect the Ferrari engine to be very powerful and reliable, as they will have 4 cars per race and 2 teams testing the same engine, which will add much more miles to them which will help improving power, reliability and fuel consuption, one of the biggest problems Ferrari endured last season. They could not afford to qualify on low fuel because if they did it, they would have to pit 5 or 6 laps before anyother.

But I want to know if anyone is got any information about those performances, speciallu about the Mercedes FO110Q.

Cheers from Brasil,

Rodrigo Lamas

[Irvingthien]

Mercedes-Benz engine has fallen behind since 2000. Often dogged by reliability problem and lack of horsepower.I think MB has the heaviest and less power of the trio titile contender for '03. They seems to be struggling with heating problems with the 19 now, with burn marks always appearing on their engine cove. Hope their move from Stuttgart to England might help improve their 2004 a lot more.

[Alex M3]

From what I have read, the BMW F1 engine designer responsible for the P82 has been at McLaren-Mercedes since last year. Apparently, and i can't recall where i read this but i KNOW i did in a reliable source, that the designer will be given free reign over the new design for the '04 powerplant. Now, whether this tid-bit means that Ilmor will build a hot motor for the 19's this year cannot be determined.

I believe the one-engine rule is good overall, but as we've all read the prospect of replacing a blown motor during the weekend with a short-life motor ready to finish only the weekend is a little dissapointing. However, I am willing to bet that this does not become commonplace next season at all.. reliability will be paramount this season, and the penalty of 10 grid positions is painful - especially without launch control this year.

Reliability will be key, and i expect Ferrari will lead the way for reasons mentioned as well as based on their general track-record.. I dont think Schuey's had a technical failure since like '01 or something stupid. BMW may build the hottest motors (Motor is their middle name hehe) but the reliability question is key i think.. Mario Theissen seems confident, but aren't they all?

I would like to see smaller displacement V10's if they do decide to cut power more.. a 2.5L V10 would be wicked and then we'd be able to see the 20k rpm mark surpassed easily.

I'd also like to see the elimination of camshafts altogether and a programmable solenoid acutation system for the pneumatic valvetrain.

[Guest]

He was not only responsible for the p82 but the whole bmw engine program. His name is Dr Werner Laurenz, chief of engine, and seated just under mario theissen. He was head of development from the start at bmw, and was in charge of the engines p80, p81, p82, p83.
Last year as he changed to Mercedes, german sites called it a major blow for bmw, and serious scoop for mercedes. It was about the same time they got John Sutton from ferrari.
Thers is no doubt Laurenz has hat a huge impact on the mercedes program at the end of last season and on this years mercedes engine. Actually he was so good, that according to rumors last year, illmor feelt so treatened that he was looking for a new job, which resulted in the rumors about Illien moving to Renault, which unfortunately didn't haben.
in other words, he is not just one man, but the man behind the entire engine program.

[Guest]

this is part of an season preview last year on bbc.co.uk


The McLaren-Mercedes team have boosted their prospects of taking on Ferrari next season by signing up an engine expert from rivals BMW.
The move is a major coup for Mercedes, which has been struggling with engine development in recent years and has fallen a substantial distance behind BMW and Ferrari.
The BMW V10, used by the Williams team, is regarded as the most powerful in F1, and by employing project leader Werner Laurenz Mercedes should discover many of its secrets.
Laurenz has been heavily involved in the design of every BMW engine since the company returned to F1 in 2000.
Of course it is always a loss if a key figure leaves a team
Mario Theissen
BMW motorsport director
The German company has moved the goalposts in terms of what is expected of an F1 engine, stealing a lead that used to be held by Mercedes.
BMW has refused to confirm that Laurenz is moving to Mercedes, but a source close to McLaren has confirmed to BBC Sport Online that it is the case.
It is a hugely significant coup for McLaren, who are regarded as having the second best chassis after Ferrari this year.
They have been restricted by their Mercedes engine, which started the year some 70bhp down on the BMW, and has gained about 25bhp in the course of the season.
BMW's quick progress has also been an embarrassment for Mercedes, which has been in F1 since 1993 and won world titles with McLaren in 1998 and '99.
The two companies are major rivals in the road car market.
Laurenz would not likely be able to have an impact in time for the start of next season, but his influence would certainly be felt in the course of 2003.
McLaren put wins before title
McLaren are delaying the introduction of their new car next year to ensure enough time for the development of a brand new engine.
The BMW engine has been a huge boost for Williams
And Laurenz's presence could ensure that the new V10 is fully on the pace by the time it is introduced - which is expected to be in time for the fourth or fifth race of the season.

[Guest]

Yes indeed not much is said about the engines & mercedes's in particular - except that they all lacked grunt & reliability since 2000/2001...

Now what would be of interest to me would be this rumour which surfaced mid-season 2003 that the P engine(for MP4-18) had a revolutionary(to modern F1) fuel injection system. There was talk of the Gasoline Direct Injection System(GDI) being exclusively developed by Bosch for Mercedes(with such reliable sites as grandprix.com running it!) so that MP4-18 could actually run a whole race distance without refuelling due to unprecedented low fuel consumption of the P engine...
Then the story of the P engine producing 930bhp & revving at up to 19700rpm (with such reliable sites as Bernies f1.com running it!)

Since then nothing has been said about it again, probably cuz the world of F1 never saw the engine actually run in a race behind MP4-18...Even now nothing is being said about the Q engine behind MP4-19 & I gather everyone at mclaren is lip-tight...

[Guest]

Without any proof, I think mercedes has produced a very good engine. It ran only one week later(31 juli 2003) on the dynos than the new bmw engine last year and has been tested on track since late last year.
Besides that I also read somewhere that for the first time stuttgart and Brixworth worked together on the same engine program. That in connextion with Werner Laurenz should give some momentum to the engine program
Besides that kimi said in an interview that he feelt the new car had a lot of power. Some i think we are looking at an exciting season

[SpeedTech]

I tend to agree with Irvinthein, ever since late 2000 Mercedes-Illmor have been having problems with their engines.Very surprising considering their sucess in indy as well as F1.
Then in May 2001 Illmor lose one Paul Morgan,since then they have gone down hill
Maybe now with Werner Laurenz working for Mercedes.....it might change things!

[Steven]

Idd I haven't thought of that already... very good point! The death of Morgan must have been a huge shock for Mario Illien, and for the complete team back then.
Also, once more you could come up with that Berillium engine thing, they must have come over that by now, but you can't deny it's since that winter that they lost a leading position. I think it also came together with Hakkinen losing out on his title because of many many breakdowns

[drspeed]

I agree that the loss of Morgan has a pretty hard blow for Mclaren performance-wise. But now they have an even stronger team by recruiting the former BMW head of engines and John Sutton, the gearbox engineer from Ferrari.

But heck, 19,700rpm! Perhaps there will be engines revving up to 20,000rpm by the end of the season. 930 bhp is not a very high output though. It's marginally better than last year's BMW. BMW said that the new P84 will lose some revs due to heavier engine parts, but i'm not sure if that would lead to any power loss.

[rodlamas]

The problem with Mercedes did begin before the death of Paul Morgan. In 2000 the FIA announced that beryllium would not be allowed anymore in the construction of the engines as it is considered (only by Ferrari and consequently by the FIA) a potential cancer agent.

So Mercedes had to start 2001 from zero kelvin so the Mercedes 2001 engine had the same power, as said by Newey, that the engine from 1998, which has been a major blow, well over 50 bhp, closing the figures to 100 bhp.

Since then, Mercedes has been playing catch up, and I think they have done a very good job this year, as Raikkonen and Coulthard were able to keep with Barrichello during the Monza race.

But, as a I have already said BMW will come with a very good engine the P84.... My question is the same: WILL THE MERCEDES FO110Q BE A MATCH FOR THE BMW P84 IN TERMS OF POWER?

[Guest]

Guys what about the Direct Injection story? Now should that be true, that could be a HUGE advantage for mclaren. They could virtually win races by just driving through the race without pitstopping, or just doing a single stop!!

[rodlamas]

What hell of story is DIRECT INJECTION SYSTEM????

Can anybody explain what the hell is so and also explain how this system works and how it operates.