Honda's Horsepower

[Aradea]

Everybody knows that every year Honda have a special engine for racing on Suzuka only, called the "Suzuka Spec". And I realized that it got the biggest horse power than any other spec so far in the season. So, what I want to know is how much horse power does this "Suzuka Spec" 2003 engine have ?
So I can roughly estimate the BHP for the 2004 engine. Cos every time Honda got a brand new Engine in a new season, the power is as big as the "Suzuka Spec" (maybe..).
Does Honda Engine ever reach 900 BHP ?
I'm a big BAR Honda Fan, and when I know that Toyota's RVX-04 Engine has about 900 BHP in it, I'm afraid that Toyota will beat Honda in this 2004 season (Not Acceptable !..)

[West]

Reportedly the Honda engine reached 900 hp at 19000 rpm at the 2003 United States Grand Prix. It was their step-seven unit, with a special button that allowed the driver to add an additional 200rpm for passing. The only problem was that if used more than seven times, the engine would explode or something. Supposedly Jenson Button used it more than seven times during that race...

The problem with Honda engines last year was not only reliability but it was one of the heaviest on the grid. I'm sure their biggest concern is not the amount of horsepower they make but with the weight of their engine. BAR has had problems with block flex and I guess Honda wasn't too sure how to handle it (the engine was a stressed member under cornering) so I guess heavier materials were their only solution.

All of this reminds me of the 2002 Belgian Grand Prix... didn't almost all the Honda engines blow up? Very weird considering Honda makes extremely reliable street cars.

Since I own a Lexus, seeing Toyota outperform Honda would be awesome.

[rodlamas]

Everybody would always be trying to guess powers and rpms from all engines on the grid. But as you knw, this is something that the manufactures try to hide as much as they can.

The only time that everybody vould see the real rpms of the engines was in the 2002 US Grand Prix were we could the see it on the transmission.

Since it has been a game of playing with figures. Mercdees, BMW and Ferrari were all reaving past 19,000 rpm at Suzuka. Toyota and Honda must have been very close to it.

Talking about power, BMW finished the season with something around 920-930 bhp. Mercedes and Ferrari around 900 bhp. Toyota and Honda must have very close, but they had other problems taht would handicap the power of their engines.

The US track at Indy is a track where you can see not only the power of the engine, but also the capability of each car of using as less drag as possible in order to get good speeds without hurting the rear tyres.

As you can remember, BAR reached 335 on the straights and Toyota 332, where Mclaren were at 341 and Ferrari, with very good aero, 345. BMW with its imense amount of poewr goto to 350.

So do not read too much into those figures, because good engine power can be masked by bad aero or mechanical setup, as well as it can be compensated, as Renault showed all over 2003.

[Irvingthien]

I'm afraid that Toyota will beat Honda in this 2004 season (Not Acceptable !..)

I'm tipping Toyota to beat Hondain '04. You can compare both their team together and Toyota seems to have the advantage. Here's why.
1. Their engine is more reliable engine last year.
2. Toyota has Mike Gascoyne, which is the most sought after tec. director after newey;while BAR has Willis, which was fired by Williams in 02.
3. Toyota has more budget than BAR.
4. Toyota are on Michelins, which totally out race bridgestone in 03.

[Steven]

eum...

1. Willis was not fired by Williams, but attracted to BAR for more money. I also rate Willis quite high, he was at Williams for quite a while during the top periods of Villeneuve/Hill, so I think he knows how to design a car (which is probably what he already did last season, but the engine and gearbox kept breaking. So reliability is idd a weak point of Honda, also now with their new engines in testing... not very good from the beginning, opposite to McLaren or BMW
2. BAR is also on Michelin, so I don't see your point here
3. GAscoyne will probably only have great influence next year, if the new TF104 is ---, he may get it a little better, but that's it then.

[rodlamas]

Probably the point of the guy is that Toyota has a 2 year experience on Michelins, which means they know much better than BAR how to build a suspension that uses better the Michelins than BAR (uses better means: generate more heat faster, produce more grip, and little wear).

Mclaren in 2002 had porr year not only because their engine was underpowered and unrelaible and their car was heavy. But much more because they did not know how to cope with the Michelin tyres.

People are heavily tipping BAR this year (specially Jensou Buton!) but I must confess that I do not expect neither BAR nor Reanult to fight with the big 3. And I say more it´ll be a two-way fight: Mclaren x Williams.

[Aradea]

Guys..Guys... Relax OK ? I just want to know how much power the latest Honda Engine got. U don't have to Diss each other or the F1 teams.. I'm not a technical guy when it comes to F1, so in this forum I want to learn from U guys who is more qualified than me in this kinda thing.
Now, back to the topic :
1. Does anyone know the exact horse power of the latest Honda engine ?
2. Or the BHP of the Suzuka Spec ??
I know that the weight issue is the main problem for Honda for the last couple of seasons, but they said the new engine will be lighter than last year's.
And I'm sure that Geoff Willis will make a great Chassis (hopefully..), even Jense Button is excited about 2004. I'm optimistic for this season..

[KJ]

Guys..Guys... Relax OK ? I just want to know how much power the latest Honda Engine got. U don't have to Diss each other or the F1 teams.. I'm not a technical guy when it comes to F1, so in this forum I want to learn from U guys who is more qualified than me in this kinda thing.
Now, back to the topic :
1. Does anyone know the exact horse power of the latest Honda engine ?
2. Or the BHP of the Suzuka Spec ??
I know that the weight issue is the main problem for Honda for the last couple of seasons, but they said the new engine will be lighter than last year's.
And I'm sure that Geoff Willis will make a great Chassis (hopefully..), even Jense Button is excited about 2004. I'm optimistic for this season..

BAR is optimistic EVERY season, but every season ends up to be a disappointment. I've lost faith in them untill they prove me wrong. I was always a big fan of Villeneuve since I am Canadian, but I was upset that his car always let him down.

Anyway, I don't expect this year to be much different, I always hoped Honda would beat Toyota, but I just don't see it happening this year.

- KJ

[Aradea]

I know that KJ, BAR is always very optimistic. But it's only been one season since Dave Richards take over, and I think when it comes to manage a winning team, Dave is the MAN ! .
I realize that this season BAR wont win 1st place or even runner up, but I really think that this season BAR will make the 3rd or 4th place contructor a run for their money
Of course we will have to see the 006 Car first, or even the first race in Melbourne. But I think being BAR is under Dave Richards now, last season experience (when they said that BAR will win the 3rd place construstors champ) will make every people in BAR and Honda work much much harder for DR high standards(and mine)..
Here's The fact :
1. They got Geoff Willis as Technical Director (& designer of course..)
2. They R running on Michelins this season.
3. Honda engine got great horse power (But still heavy.. )
4. Jense Button (2nd behind M.Schumacher for cool driving) & Takuma
Sato (Aggresive driver..remember Suzuka??).
5. Dave Richards Of Course.

I even think that BAT will reconsider to step down as owner (in 2005 ??) next season when BAR will win races.
I'm also A big fan of JV, Great aggresive driver. But BAR now has Takuma, Honda wishes are coming true, so why wouldn't they give BAR their best Engine so far. Am I Right ?

Love BAR Honda

[KJ]

I really don't think BAR can give anyone in the Top 4 (McLaren Mercedes, BMW Williams, Ferrari, Renault) a run for their money.

Those guys are all heads and shoulders above BAR and the rest of the grid.

I think the discussion comes down to who will be 5th. This year, I don't think Jaguar will be up to the task. At the end of last season, they were really falling off the pace. Add to the fact that the R5 carries over many of the problems from the R4 leads me to think that Jaguar won't be gunning for 5th this year.

Minardi and Jordan both suck, so that eliminates them from the contention for 5th spot.

I feel that it will end up being a battle between Toyota, BAR, and Sauber for fifth (in that order).

It just seems to me that Toyota was coming on strong at the end of last season, and if they keep that momentum going, I think 5th place shall be theirs. They got Mike Gascoyne, they got a strong engine, a big budget and a head start on BAR with regards to their 2004 car.

Of course, all this is speculation, so we'll have to wait untill Melbourne to see. Either way, it looks to be a very exciting season this year! =)

Cheers,
KJ

[Aradea]

Mm KJ...and All of U. Jenson Button has smashed the lap record at Barcelona by over four tenths of a second, and easily leaving other rivals by more than a second. Hahaha.... What do U think about BAR right now ?!
I'm sure that Mr. Willis and Mr. Nakamoto got something up on their sleeves, For God Sake ! the 006 car isn't being launched yet.. and their smashing lap records !!. I know I musn't get too excited, but leaving the FW26, R24, and F-2003 GA (not mentioning TF-104, C23, & R5) with that sort of margin is beyond everybody's expectation.. Am I Right ??
I know that this season would be different, now I got reason to felt that way

[NickT]

Hold on to your horses Just incase you don't know there is a lot of bluffing going on at the moment and I am not convinced the top teams arn't sandbagging Also no one is scrutineering the cars at these tests so we have no idea if they are under weight or fitted with an oversize engine

Please I am nt accusing anyone of using these tactics, but when you are trying to bag sponsorship then this sort of thing gives big brownie points and can be a deal clincher

So just take these times with a pinch of salt Melbourne is where we will see all of the cars real potential!

[rodlamas]

If you watch Formula 1 you must know who is Michael Schumacher.

In his first day of test after 3 months without a drive he would never put low fuel and fresj tyres and go for a time, right?

8 tenths must mean some 25-30 kgs of fuel on one car. Do you think Ferrari testes tyres with this amount of fuel?

Certainly not..... Be aware.... BAR is still miles away from Ferrari, Mclaren and Williams

Arrows in 2001 beated records.....

[Aradea]

Well.. Maybe You're right NickT. But U see, of all of the pre-season test from 2000 until now, BAR never top the times even once !.. Since then, I never had high hopes for BAR. but today, smashing lap records (in an "old car" ) is a good way to start a season, So maybe they got something right this time..
Anyway is possible to bag new sponsorship this close to the launch of the 006, I'm no F1 guru, but I dont think So..
Either way, is it wrong for a BAR fan to get excited even just for a pre-season test times ?
Besides, if the top teams are sandbagging, I' pretty sure the time that they will make up isn't that much. I'm not saying that BAR will win the Championship this season, but at least they will make rapid improvement that last year

[NickT]

Aradea, please don't get me wrong. I as much as anyone want B.A.R to dramatically improve, Dave Richards is a super star I have admired for a long time, Jeff Willis is now showing us what he can really do, Jenson Button is in what will be a pivotal point in his F1 carear and I shook hands with Tako in Scotland this summer after he blasted the Mount Stewart classic, mostly side ways in an F1 car

Bagging a sponsorship deal is a right to the wire and sometimes behond thing, afterall B.A.R have a seriously big debit they need to clear Sponsors want to know their name will get good coverage As rodlamas pointed out Arrows hit the top of the time sheets in 2000, do you think Orange were happy at that time

Just incase you are in any doubt it is not wrong to get excited about B.A.Rs performance, hell I am Just take it with a pinch of salt until the flag drops down under