true or false

furnik · Post 12 Jul 2007, 09:31

were has mclaren got its speed reliabity from ferrari of course. and ferrari has picked up mclarens bug or is that there is more to meet the eye with the stephangate saga.

Saribro · Post 12 Jul 2007, 10:39

Go troll somewhere else.

furnik · Post 12 Jul 2007, 11:37

opps sorry if istood on someone foot

waynes · Post 12 Jul 2007, 12:51

ferrari have had awesome reliability

mclaren have realised that stuff needs to be built to last longer, hence the good form they are in

no question of using info from ferrari in my eyes

Rob W · Post 12 Jul 2007, 13:17

waynes wrote:no question of using info from ferrari in my eyes

Do I need to point out that almost always McLaren's reliability problems were derived from their engine... the part of the car which they haven't been allowed to change? (and would be blindingly obvious if they did in any case)

Unless you'd like to explain how Torro Rosso/Redbull keeping using Kimi's gearbox from Magny-Cours qualifying.

Rob W

mep · Post 12 Jul 2007, 18:32

Do I need to point out that almost always McLaren's reliability problems were derived from their engine...

I don't think so.
You can't only blame the engine in its basic construction.
Some of there problems can only be explained that they are plain stupid.
It seems that they don't take care when they build the car togeter.
They falled out because of hydraulic leagages many times and knowing that from the start on. So why do they start? Cant they test the car
before they start?.
And what about Monaco last year they started the race with a cooling
system that starts burning, and they know that from Friday on.
But why do they start so?
How would you call this?

C/\D · Post 12 Jul 2007, 20:53

I dont think that. McLaren has recieved thoose fatas as a F1 team. Only Coughlan and someone who is in contact for this purpose personally. But i think it's a stupid behavior to detail ferrari's works and apply them to your car. It'll differ from the aero, from the engine, from the nose all the things are different. Only thoose data's can be used for jamming the rival's improvements, sabotage their pace. But i dont see any sabotage to ferrari from McLaren. The team 'll be cleared soon.

dumrick · Post 13 Jul 2007, 01:42

Rob W wrote:Do I need to point out that almost always McLaren's reliability problems were derived from their engine...

Oh, not that myth again... if something is said over and over again becomes true???
Where are the stats when I need them?

Rob W · Post 13 Jul 2007, 01:48

I really think we should wait and see.

There is almost no doubt that McLaren have not used any of Ferrari's info on their car. Having said that, simply being in possession of it is an infringement.

I should point out that Redbull/Torro Rosso are in possession of some of each other's parts as a daily practice. Moreso, a level of information must be passed over in situations where someone is an engine customer. You can't just send an engine to someone and expect them to bolt it on. There are chassis loading issues, wiring, fuel-feel, engine management software/hardware, cooling info/advice etc which make up a hell of a lot of intellectual property.

Yet, with most aero you need only take a photo of another team's car and you can copy an idea to within 0.01%

The the rules are black and white, but the line is grey.

I say Mclaren will prove their car has not incorporated any Ferrari technical detail, but they will be punished - as a team - for being in possession of the info.

Rob W

Rob W · Post 13 Jul 2007, 02:26

dumrick wrote:Oh, not that myth again... if something is said over and over again becomes true???

McLaren Engine-related failures (to be charitable I added transmission, gearbox, electrical & pneumatic failures to the list. No-one seriously considers them not to be engine-related in modern F1)

2002
Australian GP - Coulthard (gearbox)
Malaysian GP - Kimi (engine)
Malaysian GP - Coulthard (engine)
San Marino - Kimi (engine/exhaust)
Austrian GP - Kimi (engine)
British GP - Kimi (engine)
Belgian GP - Kimi (engine)
Italian GP - Kimi (engine)
US GP - Kimi (engine)
Japanese GP - Coulthard (throttle)

2003
Malaysian GP - Coulthard (engine/electrical)
European GP - Kimi (engine)
US GP - Coulthard (gearbox)

2004
Australian GP - Kimi (engine)
Malaysian GP - Kimi (engine/transmission)
Monaco - Kimi (pneumatics)
European GP - Kimi (engine)
European GP - Coulthard (engine)
Hungarian GP - Kimi (electrical)
Italian GP - Kimi (engine)

2005
San Marino - Kimi (engine/driveshaft)
Franch GP - Montoya (engine)
German GP - Kimi (engine/hydraulics)
Hungarian GP - Montoya (driveshatft)

2006
European GP - Montoya (engine)
German GP - De La Rosa (fuel pump)
Italian GP - De La Rosa (engine)

Not a bad list if you ask me.

Rob W

modbaraban · Post 13 Jul 2007, 08:07

Rob W wrote:2006
European GP - Montoya (engine)
German GP - De La Rosa (fuel pump)
Italian GP - De La Rosa (engine)

+ Monaco 2006 - Kimi

furnik · Post 13 Jul 2007, 11:56

hey rob w find the same dates for ferrari and match them up with the list you put up and it will put it into perspective as well. ron prob said to ferrari we will give you kimi and you help us win race's. Thats sounds like a fair bet.

Torso · Post 14 Jul 2007, 21:15

Michael lost the drivers title in 2006 due to a sudden high average of technical problems in the latter part of the season.

AFTER NS learned he wasn`t getting his promotion the car suddenly started to break down...

I think it`s VERY VERY logic to ask how Ferrari`s reliability could suddenly get so poor..

F1 Observer · Post 15 Jul 2007, 01:05

Torso wrote:
I think it`s VERY VERY logic to ask how Ferrari`s reliability could suddenly get so poor..

Michael Schumacher's retirement from the Japanese GP 2006 held at Suzuka was the first blown engine related DNF for him in over 100 GP starts.
What do you mean by "suddenly" and "so poor"?
Mind you, ten or twenty years ago, the World Champion had about 3 or 4 retirements a year due to mechanical problems.

F1 Observer · Post 15 Jul 2007, 01:12

Torso wrote:Michael lost the drivers title in 2006 due to a sudden high average of technical problems in the latter part of the season.

Michael Schumacher had a grand total of TWO retirements in EIGHTEEN races.
His first retirement came at Australia, round THREE, due to an accident. And the second DNF came in Japan, round seventeen.

Michael Schumacher's second half of 2006 :
(From the 9th round of 18 onwards)

CANADA :2nd
USA,FRANCE,GERMANY : 1st
HUNGARY : 8th (didn't finish)
TURKEY : 3rd
ITALY,CHINA : 1st
JAPAN : DNF
BRAZIL : 4th

He amassed 70 points out of a possible 90, or 77,8% of all the points he could have won. He also won 5 of the last 9 races, or 55,6% of all the races up for grabs in the second half of 2006.