[Rant] America's legal system

[Ciro Pabón]

And BTW, I'm no stickler for the law, but just as a point of fact, I assume prostitution IS illegal in GB? And in the majority of cases (at least here in the US) it seems the law comes down hardest on the one buying the service than on the one providing it.

My apologies in advance if I offend someone (I know I will).

The list of countries where prostitution is illegal boils down to, essentially, the United States of America.

Prostitution is legal in most of Europe (England, Wales, France, Denmark, etc.), Canada, South America, Israel (known as "the brothel capital of the world"), Australia, New Zealand (recently). It is legal or tolerated in most of Asia, including even countries like Iran, where you can get a "temporary wife" for a few hours (if marriage were that simple! ).

In my country, as in most civilized, non-puritan, less strait-laced, not so sanctimonious countries, prostitution is seen as "acts which harm no one", as long as you don't promote it, force people to work in it or you go to bed with a minor.

Simple: hookers are welcome, pimps aren't.

Some people hold the point of view that as long as prostitution is illegal, "prostitute women will be subject to brutality at the hands of misogynists and moralists -- they are, arguably, the same group. And when prostitutes are treated as second class citizens, and in extreme cases, as less than human, then all women who dare to step out of their social constructs will be labeled as whores and treated accordingly. For these reasons, the rights of all women are contingent upon the rights accorded to the most vulnerable women".

--Dr. Jocelyn Elders, US General Surgeon--

Mrs. Elders was fired by Bill Clinton because of her views on masturbation. Oh, America, Number One in jailing the small people for their vices, while it calls that law enforcement.

So, Mary Magdalene is understood everywhere.

Sorry for going OOT, but I've always (sorry again for the stereotype) thought that US aggresivity comes, in part, from their lack of comfort with sex.

Even more OOT, US also seems to be obsessed with the qualities of youth (the Peter Pan complex): people don't want to grow old. I happily concede I might be wrong when I think this comes from the same source: lack of comfort with sex.

A lot of americans I know are desperate to look young. This is a clear contrast with the attitude of most of the world, where old people is respected: you don't want to look like a boy or girl. At least I always wanted to look older (I have kind of a boyish face, people always thinks I'm 10 or 15 years younger).

In short, as my father-in-law says about every strait laced person he mets, americans are not "well ---"...

Oooops.

British, on the other hand, perhaps without reason are seen as people that "don't --- well". It must be the food. Actually, with the exception of James Hunt (don't tell me Coulthard has a normal sex life), I don't recall a british driver or manager that seems happy being sexy. Can somebody help me here?

[gcdugas]

Mrs. Elders was fired by Bill Clinton because of her views on masturbation. Oh, America, Number One in jailing the small people for their vices, while it calls that law enforcement.

The problem with her was that she thought it had to be taught....


And America is evil and the prison capital of the world. Just youtube any cop video and you will see American thugs cruelly beating the citizenry. John Wayne is dead as armed resistance is long over due. Once it starts though, we all have our lists.

[riff_raff]

And America is evil and the prison capital of the world. Just youtube any cop video and you will see American thugs cruelly beating the citizenry.

Ahhhh....the wisdom of enlightened Europeans like gcdugas. Apparently he's never heard of countries like Singapore, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia or China. Where they execute, or stone to death, people for things like drug possession or adultery. Simple drug possession will not even get you a jail sentence in the US, and fortunately for Bill Clinton, adultery is not a crime.

Compare that to a supposedly "progressive" country like Germany, where parents can be jailed simply for home-schooling their own children. Or the UK, where a man is prosecuted for attempted murder for shooting a burglar that breaks into his house and threatens his life.

And to Mr. Pabon who stated, "Oh, America, Number One in jailing the small people for their vices, while it calls that law enforcement.", the thing that separates the US from the rest of the world is this: All Americans are equal in the eyes of the law, and no person is above law (even the president). Just look at what recently happened to the governor of New York state, Mr. Spitzer.

I'll just leave all of you selfish, nihilistic, petty America-haters with this thought: Can you name another country that has voluntarily sacrificed more of its young men fighting for other countries freedom than the US?

Didn't think so. Grow up.

[joseff]

Or the UK, where a man is prosecuted for attempted murder for shooting a burglar that breaks into his house and threatens his life.

Actually, if he killed the burglar he wouldn't have been prosecuted. He should've finished what he started.

Max is now eyebrow-deep in it. Even the AAA and ADAC weighed in. But hey, he survived the whole GPMA thing. He'll pull through this.

[P_O_L]

And America is evil and the prison capital of the world. Just youtube any cop video and you will see American thugs cruelly beating the citizenry.

Ahhhh....the wisdom of enlightened Europeans like gcdugas. Apparently he's never heard of countries like Singapore, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia or China. Where they execute, or stone to death, people for things like drug possession or adultery. Simple drug possession will not even get you a jail sentence in the US, and fortunately for Bill Clinton, adultery is not a crime.

Compare that to a supposedly "progressive" country like Germany, where parents can be jailed simply for home-schooling their own children. Or the UK, where a man is prosecuted for attempted murder for shooting a burglar that breaks into his house and threatens his life.

And to Mr. Pabon who stated, "Oh, America, Number One in jailing the small people for their vices, while it calls that law enforcement.", the thing that separates the US from the rest of the world is this: All Americans are equal in the eyes of the law, and no person is above law (even the president). Just look at what recently happened to the governor of New York state, Mr. Spitzer.

I'll just leave all of you selfish, nihilistic, petty America-haters with this thought: Can you name another country that has voluntarily sacrificed more of its young men fighting for other countries freedom than the US?

Didn't think so. Grow up.

Well said!!

[Rob W]

...All Americans are equal in the eyes of the law, and no person is above law (even the president). Just look at what recently happened to the governor of New York state, Mr. Spitzer.

Um,... OK. Please explain Paris Hilton's jailing last year - described by legal experts as a very lenient sentence. The American legal system may attempt to treat everyone equally - as do countries with common-law based systems (UK, Australia, Canada, NZ etc). Interesting that travesties of misjustice are far higher in the US than most common law countries.

Re: Eliot Spitzer. He didn't lose his job because he broke any law(s). He lost it because it was untenable that he kept his position after the details became public. People expect a certain level of decency and conservatism in their politicians and he fell short of that.

...all of you selfish, nihilistic, petty America-haters with this thought: Can you name another country that has voluntarily sacrificed more of its young men fighting for other countries freedom than the US?

As for this . A little less name calling here for a start please. You might do well to take the time to consider that America only requires so many soldiers in war zones because they so regularly meddle in other people's affairs. Often it is entirely with merit and to be applauded and supported, but on occasion it is meddling plain and simple with ulterior motives. Freedom? An utter cliche used to justify intentions in a nice-sounding way.

Please don't even bother to defend this - you've make your point and I've offered an alternative, one which a huge percentage of the world see it as. And it's no use trying to convince each other of the point. Let it lie and return to the topic of Max and his naughty antics. This forum is about F1, we aren't here to have a righteous debate over which country contributes the most to the world community as if it has any impact on motorsport.

R

[Carlos]

I'd have to agree with donskar, riff-raff and P.O.L. I don't understand why threads degenerate into indictments of the USA. Give me 5 minutes on the internet and I can find enough violations from any country on the globe to make everyone feel sick. No country, no man's hands are clean. The glass house and stones clique has some validity. Let's leave running down each other's country off this forum. I've resisted the temptation and I encourage others to use a little restraint.

I agree with Rob.W - Let's get back to the subject of the thread.


edited

[dumrick]

Can you name another country that has voluntarily sacrificed more of its young men fighting for other countries freedom than the US?

If you really believe any country ever sacrificed any of its people's lives for anything other than their own interests and you're over 14, you've got a serious problem, man.

Moreso, there isn't probably a country that interfered so much in other countries business and was involved in so many massacres abroad to gain strategic and economical advantages than yours, face it. Are you that delusional or just pulling our leg?

[P_O_L]

That sounds a bit rich coming from a portuguese dude. Vasco da gama anyone?

I dont think the US had many interests in setting up the UN or fighting germans on french soil. I also think you should do some googling on ow, say the british empire with all their colonies, the austrian/hungarian rulers, the prussian empire, the spanish inquisition, the napoleon empire, the vikings, and off course, the roman empire. I think theyd give the us a good run for their money in the meddling in foreign countries race. Then we have the smaller conquerers like the old dutch east indies, their ferrying of slaves to the US (with the brits) or the French explorations into africa and asia.

Now, who started all this country bashing again?

[casper]

Can you name another country that has voluntarily sacrificed more of its young men fighting for other countries freedom than the US?

If you really believe any country ever sacrificed any of its people's lives for anything other than their own interests and you're over 14, you've got a serious problem, man.

Moreso, there isn't probably a country that interfered so much in other countries business and was involved in so many massacres abroad to gain strategic and economical advantages than yours, face it. Are you that delusional or just pulling our leg?

To the moderators, my apology first for posting OOT but people who tend to moralize sometime are themselves ignorant of their own countrymen's dark past that were conveniently hidden. This is shock therapy to those who think their country is an angel as regards exploitation of other races. I hope with this shock therapy, posters will stop bashing each other and go back to discussing F1.

To put things in perspective , the following is an AP newsbrief on Portugal's past http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=105&sid=1307109

"LISBON, Portugal (AP) - The heads of enemy soldiers impaled on roadside trees. Hundreds of prisoners tortured, killed and dumped in mass graves. Napalm dropped on jungles where guerrillas sheltered, and grass-hut villages torched with cigarette lighters.

These gruesome acts were carried out in Portugal's name two generations ago during its colonial wars in Africa. But for most Portuguese, the events aren't history _ they're news.

A groundbreaking series aired by public broadcaster Radiotelevisao Portuguesa is confronting Portugal with unsettling aspects of its recent history that for decades have been shrouded in silence. The series has become a top-rated prime-time program and the most-watched documentary in years, regularly drawing more than a million viewers in a country of 10.6 million.

"People had spoken very little about what happened," said Joaquim Furtado, the Portuguese journalist who created the series. "The effect, I think, has been positive. People won't be able to see things in simplistic terms now."

Portugal isn't the only European country being forced to address unpalatable aspects of its colonial legacy.

Three years ago, Belgium was shocked by a documentary portraying King Leopold II's brutal 19th-century exploitation of what was once the Belgian Congo.
"\

Portugal's wars against independence fighters in its 500-year-old African empire erupted in 1961 in Angola. In surprise attacks, rebels butchered Portuguese settlers, including women and children, on remote Angolan plantations. In revenge, Portuguese militias and troops carried out a vicious campaign of repression, despite pressure from the United States and United Nations to pull out of Africa.

Filmmaker Furtado, a well-known journalist with an almost 40-year career, spent more than six years digging up hundreds of hours of film footage and masses of photographs, some never seen in public. He also gathered firsthand accounts from war veterans on both sides, many of whom hadn't spoken out before.

In the former Portuguese colony of Mozambique, the documentary has been greeted with quiet satisfaction but no calls for an official apology or compensation.

"No one is going to react angrily to the film because it shows the past, not the present. The past is the past, the present is the present," said Custodio Rafael, a journalist with Radio Mozambique.

For Africans, the Portuguese atrocities have long been a matter of historical fact. But in Portugal, it has taken this documentary to explode the nation's myths about its colonial rule, which ended in 1974.

Antonio Salazar's dictatorship, established in the 1930s, kept Portugal in the dark about what was happening thousands of miles away on another continent. His censors killed unfavorable newspaper articles, and state media encouraged the war effort with reports of heroic deeds against insurgents classified as bloodthirsty "terrorists."

Within a year, the Angolan rebellion subsided. But parallel wars broke out in Mozambique and another Portuguese African colony, Guinea-Bissau.

Salazar, mindful that the African colonies enriched his nation and lent it a Cold War stature beyond its size, waged a propaganda battle that included the unremitting government slogan "Angola e nossa!" (Angola is ours!), which was even broadcast over loudspeakers at packed beaches.

Salazar, a flinty and unbending leader, changed the designation of the colonies to "overseas territories" and depicted their peoples as Portuguese who were treated as equals and were eager to remain under Lisbon's wing.

Ask Portuguese nowadays about their colonial administration and they will insist it was benign, so radio phone-in shows and Internet blogs are abuzz over the newly revealed facts.

[Conceptual]

Ahaha...HAHAHHAHHAA

+1!

Chris

[Ciro Pabón]

Riff_Raff: again, my apologies. I shouldn't have commented that. It poisoned this thread. Never again.

[AeroGT3]

Ciro,

Your post is complete bullshit. Aside from your country's sketchy history, I think you're forgetting that the US has done more to help the rest of the world than any other country in history. Name some meddling we've done in Iraq or elsewhere and I'll give you several countries that today would not even EXIST were it not for philanthropic intervention of the US. Americans GIVE more than anyone else in the world. Americans are always branded as ignorant by the rest of the world, but I'm always amazed at the short memory of these very same people who's recollection goes back no further than the start of the Iraq conflict.

There are many other countries with harsher penalties, but there is NO other country on earth with more freedom and equality under the law. I could buy my way out of trouble in most other countries. The amount of Racism I've encountered in the UK, Germany, Spain, Switzerland and even Mexico are astounding having lived in the US. The equality under the law in the USA in "unequaled" anywhere else.

To those of you who think the Paris Hilton sentence was because she was rich: get real. Sentences for first offense drunk driving by people with clean records are regularly reduced to this level by judges. Most drunk driver's with clean records don't ever serve prison sentences. I'd consider her sentence quite harsh.


Ciro, you haven't tainted this thread one bit. You've tainted yourself.

And by the way, I'll take the lack of prostitution in my country over the ability to bribe officials in yours any day of the week.

[West]

I can totally see how Max's scandal relates to the argument about which country is the best.

[Rob W]

I can totally see how Max's scandal relates to the argument about which country is the best.

=D> Post of the thread.

R