CERN CMS

[greenpower dude reloaded]

I have seen 100's of pictures of the Compact(is that part meant to be ironic) Moun Solenoid but what the hell is it?? and why are so many people worried about what may happen when they fire it up?

I'm expecting Ciro to know about this..

Anyway heres a pic

[theblackangus]

Bad things can happen when universal constants are changed.


Think a twinky the size of new york.

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, I'm ashamed for posting something that's it's not Out of Thread but perhaps Out of Forum... Anyway, we already had a thread on that (sure, I initiated it, actually I posted the same photo ).

In short it is a particle detector. It's called the Large Hadron Collider.

It has been built to, among many things, find out if the Higgs Boson (HB) exists.

You can ask yourself: why would someone invest a pile of money for that? This thing is huge and has costed an eye and a kidney.

The fact is that if the HB exists, then we are sure we understand why there are particles, like protons and electrons that have mass. The HB explains why we exist.

The HB would explain what is called the "break of the simmetry of the electro-weak field". In short, why the Universe is not only composed of light, but also of particles.

The crux of the matter is the mass of the HB. We already know that it has a mass that has to be larger than 115 Gev (Gigaelectronvolts). If that's true, then the Standard Model (the model of the particles that compose you, me and an F1 car) is valid up to the smallest discernible things (the Planck scale, as it is called).

If the HB has a mass of the order of 1 Tev (1000 Gev), then a new physic will be born. A new field of research would emerge and we could live through a new era of discoveries. We have no idea where it can lead us.

Now, if the HB has a larger mass than 1 Tev, then the Standard Model is not valid and we're back to the drawing board: the work of the physicists of the last century would have to be thrown away and more exotic theories could be valid.

In short, if you were God, first you make light (as the Bible says), but then you need to build the HB (which the Bible, to my amazement, doesn't mention ). This combination would lead to the Big Bang and the Universe. That's why in science fiction and popular news it is know as the God Particle. If you can build light and, then, you can construct a single HB, you could create another Universe (that's the theory).

Another side effect of the machine, as noted by some alarmists, including blackangus, is that it could create a mini black hole. In that case, Switzerland and some of Central Europe could disappear... That reminds me of Duke Nuke'm or Half Life stories, but, hey, no pain, no gain...

I would be sorry for Magny Cours, Paul Ricard and Spa, but over all, for F1 Technical servers, Tomba and Principessa. Perhaps Tomba should contemplate to have a mirror for the site, or, I'm sure, many people here will complain...

[greenpower dude reloaded]

Absolutely facinating... I thought I had seen something before but was unable to find it and considering the potential importance of this I thought starting a new thread was probably justified.

I can't wait to see what potential new theories this could throw up if the Higgs Boson can't be found. I just watched a "horizon" on Youtube which explains it all rather well.

Does anybody know when It's likely to be put into action? from what I heard it was due to start around November 26th '07 but I haven't actually heard anything about it since then and although this is an incredibly large project that has already cost £4billion+ with a total budget of £6billion and has taken around 20years to construct, It's unusual for the Swiss to be running behind schedule.

Call me a geek but I find this incredibly exciting!

[Ciro Pabón]

You know how things are... on November the magnet on the Jura side moved slightly during the testing process, or so I read. This put the project behind schedule. I heard (in December) that it would be ready for April, then I read in Science that the pipes for the calorimeter were damaged so June would be a more feasible date. Besides, as everything in this world, you don't know if something is going to come out of the experiment or when.

Besides, when the magnet is turned on you don't know if the huge hexagonal structure is going to hold steady. After all, it's an engineering project, as much as a physic experiment and in engineering, well, you only know when you start because they start to pay you...

Even more: the magnets (what is called "the cold mass", because they are extremely powerful superconducting magnets, really innovative and cold as hell) have been tested, but any failure could be catastrophic. I also read in Science that each one (the silver and orange pipes) holds the equivalent of 40 kg of TNT in stored energy, so if they fail to "superconduct" the whole thing could be damaged.

I also read that the magnets have been thoroughly tested to avoid this kind of things, but actually the apparatus moved because the magnets are so powerful that under the nominal full current the supports failed slightly and it almost hit one of the calorimeters when first tested, hence the "un-swiss" delay. You know structures: no matter how much concrete and steel you use, in the end they rest on earth.

The end cap magnet that moved. Is that Gordon Freeman standing in the top hallway?


I don't know if you're a geek, ask your girlfriend but if an engineer doesn't learn his physics, well, it's like a painter that doesn't know his colours. I think is a must for all of us to be updated, at least in a general way.

For example, I know you are into solar energy: who knows if the magnets used here could be used in a solar car? Yes, yes, I know, don't nag me, but I truly think that it depends on you and people like you. I'm sure that the physicists won't help with THAT.

[greenpower dude reloaded]

so realistically we're probably looking a year or two away

I suppose they are all calculated risks and unless they picked a team of extremely confident engineers, I can see a few sleepless nights come the switch on.

News just in from my girlfriend, I'm a Nerd, but I prefer the term Geek! Although she can't really talk considering we met at an electric race meeting!

I know this is a rather broad question but what does everybody realistically expect to happen? ....and what would you all like to see happen once this incredible peice of engineering is fired up?

HAHA!! I see what you mean about Gordon Freeman, I've never actually played the game but I know when I see a real life computer game character!