Gearbox gears.. materials and size

Alex M3 · Post 16 Mar 2004, 23:28

I read in F1 Racing in that tech interview with two crack F1 engineers (can't remember names but they both had built GP-winning cars) about some pretty sick numbers.

First off, they verified the ballast at 80-100Kg for the top teams.

They said the entire gearbox cluster is only 98mm long and that they were running gears only 8mm wide, and only as big as 12mm. One guy said he had heard of 5mm width gears! Those numbers blew my mind! In addition, they said the whole unit is 40Kg (88lbs) at the front of the grid. Wild!

Anyone have any pics of internals or any thought on the construction? They would almost have to be steel to take that kind of abuse (900+hp and 19,000rpm input speeds) but the weight is just unthinkable.

Thoughts?

KJ · Post 17 Mar 2004, 02:39

Most gearboxes now are either made of Titanium, MMC (Metal Matrix Composite), or Carbon Fibre.

The gears themselves I think would be made out of Titanium or MMC.

The size is mind boggling isn't it?

BTW Alex, aren't you over at Roadfly?

Later,
KJ

West · Post 17 Mar 2004, 05:00

What is MMC? I took material science but i don't think we covered that kind of thing.

Becker4 · Post 17 Mar 2004, 07:24

i read that article, it was pretty amazing. the two engineers talking about it were alan jenkins and gary anderson.

red300zx99 · Post 17 Mar 2004, 09:11

Not nessesarily steel (pardon my spelling). Must remember that a engine reving to 19000rpm with 900hp is only prodcuing about 250ft/lbs of torque

Becker4 · Post 17 Mar 2004, 11:24

im more interested in how they dissapate all the heat that must build up, and how they keep it lubricated.

Guest · Post 17 Mar 2004, 11:54

I think the engines are producing more than 250ftlbs of torque. If anyone has a link or info on the MMC i'd love to read more about it.

Guest · Post 17 Mar 2004, 12:05

Anonymous wrote:I think the engines are producing more than 250ftlbs of torque. If anyone has a link or info on the MMC i'd love to read more about it.

This is a commercial presentation by 3M about MMC and its application.
A good read still.

http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/mmc ... erview.pdf

Irvingthien · Post 17 Mar 2004, 12:56

I read in F1 Racing in that tech interview with two crack F1 engineers (can't remember names but they both had built GP-winning cars) about some pretty sick numbers.

That was Alan Jenkins and Gary Anderson. Was surprised when i frst knew that the gears are only 8mm small. So which typeof casing is better or lighter? carbon or titanuim.

Guest · Post 17 Mar 2004, 16:51

I think the Carbon casing has just not fully developed yet - McLaren and BAR apparently test/use them, but Ferrari's box is titanium still. I think a Kg or two may not be worth it if you don't feel comfortable with the structural strength.. better safe than sorry. Ferrari is on the bleeding edge of technology, but they also play the conservative card wisely when they need to. I want to see engine parts damnit!

red300zx99 · Post 17 Mar 2004, 23:15

hp = (tq * rpm)/5252 900 = (tq * 19000)/5252 tq = 248, and thats assuming that they rev to 19k and have hp of 900

West · Post 18 Mar 2004, 02:53

So MMC's are basically metal latices infused w/ other metals?

Guest · Post 18 Mar 2004, 03:50

red300zx99 wrote:hp = (tq * rpm)/5252 900 = (tq * 19000)/5252 tq = 248, and thats assuming that they rev to 19k and have hp of 900

Yes but peak HP and peak TQ don't occur at the same rpm. The HP peak is likely around 18200-500 for the better motors, and torque is probably a couple thousand less.

marcush. · Post 18 Mar 2004, 10:01

just one silly question :
How come it the gearcluster is only 100mm long and gears are as wide as on a 50cc bike but on the other hand the whole box weighs 40kilos?
As they use Carbonfibre and Titanium all the weight must be in the finaldrive and LSD ...and maybe the shafts......I would estimate the weight of a current box to be closer to 25+ kilos or am I wrong?

Guest · Post 19 Mar 2004, 11:39

marcush. wrote:just one silly question :
How come it the gearcluster is only 100mm long and gears are as wide as on a 50cc bike but on the other hand the whole box weighs 40kilos?
As they use Carbonfibre and Titanium all the weight must be in the finaldrive and LSD ...and maybe the shafts......I would estimate the weight of a current box to be closer to 25+ kilos or am I wrong?

Because a 50cc bike makes like 4hp and F1 cars make 900, come on guy thats a silly question.