Should RBR take the Ferrari engines back from STR?

[Conceptual]

If what Fernando said is true, the Renault engines have had ZERO performance added since Brasil 2006, but the Ferrari has been developed quite a bit.

Would it be in Red Bull's best interest to keep the Renault engines, knowing that Renault is sure to introduce a performance update before the start of 2009. Or would it be better off swapping the Ferrari engine from STR that is already advanced, and will continue to be updated?

I don't know, but logic tells you that if you want to move up the grid, you need a great engine. RBR isnt that far behind BMW, and I must say, if they still had the Ferrari engines + upgrades, they might very well be ahead of BMW this year, since the Renault engine is very underpowered.

Comments?

Chris

[modbaraban]

This whole speculation is pretty useless unless you believe all that Alonso says. I'm not. He sends out various PR messages all the time, so I geuss I aquired some immunity by now.

[donskar]

Good point, Conceptual, but:

Might be some contractual problems

Of course it would take some mods to the RBR - location and weight of components, different cooling requirements and characteristics - possibly overall weight balance, size of fuel tank

But you know all these things

As a Tifosi, I'd like to see it happen. Got to believe a Newey car would be even more competitive with a (developed) Ferrari in the back

[Conceptual]

This whole speculation is pretty useless unless you believe all that Alonso says. I'm not. He sends out various PR messages all the time, so I geuss I aquired some immunity by now.

He was very plain in stating the number of upgrades that McLaren introduced last year was very high, where Renault's were zero.

Even so, would it be wise to sell your B team that has a better engine than you? Or would you keep the more powerful engine?

RBR/STR are in the driver seat here. It would be interesting for someone to interview someone from each team, and compare HP numbers. I'm sure that they both run their customer engines on the dyno, right?

Chris

[Conceptual]

Good point, Conceptual, but:

Might be some contractual problems

Of course it would take some mods to the RBR - location and weight of components, different cooling requirements and characteristics - possibly overall weight balance, size of fuel tank

But you know all these things

As a Tifosi, I'd like to see it happen. Got to believe a Newey car would be even more competitive with a (developed) Ferrari in the back

I mean for 2009, not midseason!

Chris

[modbaraban]

He was very plain in stating the number of upgrades that McLaren introduced last year was very high, where Renault's were zero.

But the meaning might be just this "I'm sick and tired of driving the slow car. Come on Ferrari, Toyota, Honda or anyone who's gonna invest a lot in the 2009-car, I WANT YOUR CONTRACT!!!".

Even so, would it be wise to sell your B team that has a better engine than you? Or would you keep the more powerful engine?

Yes

RBR/STR are in the driver seat here. It would be interesting for someone to interview someone from each team, and compare HP numbers. I'm sure that they both run their customer engines on the dyno, right?

I guess it's not just the HP that matters and RBR is most likely to have ALL the data of the two engines.

[Sawtooth-spike]

Do you really think the engine in the back of the Ferrari and the Engine in the back of the STR are the same?

I know Spyker last year where not allowed to do anything with the engine unless somebody from ferrari was there.

I Recon the The STR one is pretty much as it was when they were locked out.

[Conceptual]

Do you really think the engine in the back of the Ferrari and the Engine in the back of the STR are the same?

I know Spyker last year where not allowed to do anything with the engine unless somebody from ferrari was there.

I Recon the The STR one is pretty much as it was when they were locked out.

I'm pretty sure that Berger said in that press conference a few races back that they were running the identical spec engine as Ferrari, including upgrades, and he was hoping and looking forward to using their KERS system next year as well.

Does anyone remember what race that conference was from?

Chris

[Belatti]

I'm pretty sure that Berger said in that press conference a few races back that they were running the identical spec engine as Ferrari, including upgrades, and he was hoping and looking forward to using their KERS system next year as well.

Does anyone remember what race that conference was from?

Chris

Yeah, that´s what Berger thinks... Do you really really believe that Ferrari would do that?
Sorry, I tend to think like Modbaraban here.

[Scotracer]

Customer engines are never as strong as the works units -- it wouldn't be a good idea for a works team to risk a customer team being so close. I reckon they have the standard 2006 homologated unit (which will still be very strong) and Ferrari probably have 10-20BHP more across the rev-range.

Still, all these numbers are negligible compared with the performance differences just 4-5 years ago where Minardi would be running 780BHP, Renault 800BHP+ and Ferrari/BMW at 920BHP+.

[Conceptual]

Wait,

Wasnt Max very explicit about customer teams having the exact spec as the works team?

Isn't that why Super Aguri was able to paste Honda last year?

Chris

[MattF1]

Perhaps now that RBR will be getting rid of STR in the future, perhaps they could develop an engine for themseves (or would they also need to develop a time machine as well?)

[WhiteBlue]

Gerhard is a pretty straitforward guy. If he says the spec is the same it will be. Ferrari cannot mess with the spec of a homologated engine.

[Conceptual]

Gerhard is a pretty straitforward guy. If he says the spec is the same it will be. Ferrari cannot mess with the spec of a homologated engine.

That tells me that RBR would be stupid to let the Ferrari engines leave with STR when it is sold.

There is no way that Renault could catch up to the Ferrari powerplant by next season, even if they started introducing upgrades today. The lead time is simply too great.

If I were Christian Horner, I'd be on the phone to Maranello!

Chris

[Miguel]

There is no way that Renault could catch up to the Ferrari powerplant by next season, even if they started introducing upgrades today. The lead time is simply too great.

They may have already started I think they have been introducing some small elements since Barcelona or so, but don't quote me on that. In any case, even though it's almost sure they won't catch Ferrari, the gap will be closed and I don't think a, let's say, 10HP difference is all that important.